Trident vs Alkatronic vs KH Director vs kh guardian

[mitch91175]

Also, I will not test more than 4/2/2. Not trying to spend $400 on reagents in a year, .

 

[leepink23]

Well I couldn’t avoid it, I broke down and bought a Trident. Will definitely be reporting back to this thread once received and setup. Going to see how they compare for myself.

My Alkatronic will still be king on my display tank though. Trident will eventually go to the frag tank once I convert it to SPS from zoanthids. Do not think I want to deck out the frag tank with everything I have on the display for sure.

Where did you get yours? Definitely let us know how it goes!

 

[mitch91175]

Where did you get yours? Definitely let us know how it goes!

Just now from the live stream. Saltwateraquarium.com had 5 of them.

 

[leepink23]

Just now from the live stream. Saltwateraquarium.com had 5 of them.

Yeah I was on there, I tried but was still to slow, glad you got one. Terence read one of my questions regarding trident, I asked if the times the trident runs would ever change, not the frequency of testing. He said it was something they are looking at, not a for sure though.

 

[Janci]

I am an Apex person...took me a long long time to use it for more than anything but turning off my MH when the water temp got too hot. I slowly added extra components and began to trust them, so added more. The transition from classic to 2016 was a pain, but so is any transition. I still have a bunch of redundancy, which I was fanatical about, but that is slowly becoming less important to me because it seems to me that all we are doing is pushing around risk. I think controllers are now good enough that the risk of using one or not using one is about the same.
I travel a lot, for extended periods of time, and the controller has remotely saved my tanks several times.
One thing that made me go with Apex is that they are in the US, so they are close to me...I have had several horrible experiences with support/parts/repair with out of country companies (even ones that have a US 'representative') and I don't want that experience ever again.

Another thing is that when I wanted a controller, Apex was really the only serious game in town, and I like the direction that they have moved over the years, and I don't think they are going to vanish. I don't care at all about product colors, or if it feels robust - I have the same feeling I had during ER vs ASM acrylic debate of 15 or 20 years ago, namely, I don't have to look at the stuff and it isn't going to be in any situation where it needs to be robust. YMMV.

I think I have an opinion on the Trident that I haven't seen expressed, but I could be wrong about that. I like it because it was super easy to set up, the reagents require almost no work from me, and I like the idea of sending an important piece of testing equipment in for servicing. I am happy to pay for all of that. I want to spend less time with stuff that supports the tank and more time with the animals. Again, YMMV.

New, and newer controllers are great, but I would need a really compelling reason to switch over, or double up on equipment, which has not presented itself yet.

Great and honest review.

 

[road_runner]

Have you setup your kh director yet? If so how is it comparing to your kh guardian?

I did not yet. Switched the apex with ghl on my main system, having fun with that. So far performance is as reported by other users. Solid controller and reliable...especially the probs..I am very pleased with how stable ph and salinity probs.
Less wires, less modules, no more programming and reliable..fun

 

[User1]

Great and honest review.

And I believe he also uses it at work. In which case if something was to fail it could set their program back months. Not sure what all components are used but I do trust his feedback and candor on the controller and hobby in general.

 

[Thales]

And I believe he also uses it at work. In which case if something was to fail it could set their program back months. Not sure what all components are used but I do trust his feedback and candor on the controller and hobby in general.

Any automation can fail anytime. None of it is fool proof, and all of it is a risk.

The Apex system at home has been solid forever, the Apex system on the spawning tank has been solid for two years. I had a couple of level sensors go bad, but no big deal. Some attaching Radion issues, but no big deal. You have to figure stuff out.

There are several other systems being made or already in use for coral spawning that use APEX. Lots of APEX components on these systems - WXM, WAV, LSM, ASM, FFM, DOS, COR, EB832, PM1, PM2, BOB, 1-LINK, PMUP (Vectras and radions too).

Oh, I really like the modularity of the apex system, and think it is an elegant solution to the changing hobby and equipment through time. Need more pH probes - easy. More temp probes - easy. Another ASM - easy. Don't need something anymore - gone easy. I can expand or contract at will. The system at home is spread all over the house for the display and the secret home lab...the modularity is great IMO.

 

[road_runner]

Any automation can fail anytime. None of it is fool proof, and all of it is a risk.

The Apex system at home has been solid forever, the Apex system on the spawning tank has been solid for two years. I had a couple of level sensors go bad, but no big deal. Some attaching Radion issues, but no big deal. You have to figure stuff out.

There are several other systems being made or already in use for coral spawning that use APEX. Lots of APEX components on these systems - WXM, WAV, LSM, ASM, FFM, DOS, COR, EB832, PM1, PM2, BOB, 1-LINK, PMUP (Vectras and radions too).

Oh, I really like the modularity of the apex system, and think it is an elegant solution to the changing hobby and equipment through time. Need more pH probes - easy. More temp probes - easy. Another ASM - easy. Don't need something anymore - gone easy. I can expand or contract at will. The system at home is spread all over the house for the display and the secret home lab...the modularity is great IMO.

Rich when you say you like the modularity because you have the system spread all over the house, are you saying you have meters of wires spread around the house?
Each module still need to connect via wire to the main unit, how are you spreading across the house?
As an average user i disagree with you a bit on the modularity. It's nothing other than sale points. nothing wrong with this, its practice all controllers do.
apex modules are exactly the same as ghl eletcronically. Same function..there is not much advantage from splitting all these electrical boards under the tank.at least no advantage to the majority of reefers..
I think statistically speaking, most reefers are using controller on a system and all their wires and modules next to the table, which means there is advantage for having more function out of the box than buying modules, add wires, and loose space...no?

As for "they are here is usa", I wonder what's your review of digital aquatic controller which was the main controller before apex? Are you still using it? They are also in usa...just curious

 

[road_runner]

And I believe he also uses it at work. In which case if something was to fail it could set their program back months. Not sure what all components are used but I do trust his feedback and candor on the controller and hobby in general.

Correct, rich cooperate with Neptune on his projects often. I listened to him many times when he is hosted by Neptune on their facebook. That's how I first got to know about him.
Love his skeptic approachs to reefing topics.
Because of rich, now I listen to penn sunday school podcast ha ha.

 

[Thales]

Rich when you say you like the modularity because you have the system spread all over the house, are you saying you have meters of wires spread around the house?
Each module still need to connect via wire to the main unit, how are you spreading across the house?

Yep. Got some long aquabus cables from the APEX behind the tank to the crawl space where the sump is and to the Secret Home Lab on the other side of the house.

I disagree with you a bit on the modularity. It's nothing other than sale points nothing more. Which btw nothing wrong with this, its practice all controllers do.

If it wasn't for the modularity, I couldn't add additional items when I need them or when they become available.

apex modules are exactly the same as ghl eletcronically. Same function..there is not much advantage from splitting all these electrical boards under the tank.at least no advantage to the majority of reefers.

The main advantage to splitting them is that the 'majority of reefers' can not pay for function they don't need or want, and others can. Not everyone wants LSM, but for me it is critical. Not everyone needs additional pH and temp probes. Not everyone needs more than 11 wirelessly controlled pumps/lights. Not everyone needs to measure PAR. Not everyone need to monitor flow. Not everyone needs leak detectors. Not everyone needs a trident. Etc. That all seems like huge advantage too many reefers at all different levels. If a company tried to put all that in one unit, they would get lambasted for being expensive and making people buy things they don't need. Modules are an elegant solution.

As for "they are here is usa", I wonder what's your review of digital aquatic conteoller that was the main controller before apex? Are you still using it? They are also in usa...just curious

I never used it - at the time I didn't trust it and the programming looked like a huge pain. I didn't want to become a coding expert, I wanted to deal with animals.

 

[Thales]

Correct, rich cooperate with Neptune on his projects often. I listened to him many times when he is hosted by Neptune on their facebook. That's how I first got to know about him.
Love his skeptic approachs to reefing topics.
Because of rich, now I listen to penn sunday school podcast ha ha.

This is hugely excellent.

 

[road_runner]

Yep. Got some long aquabus cables from the APEX behind the tank to the crawl space where the sump is and to the Secret Home Lab on the other side of the house.



If it wasn't for the modularity, I couldn't add additional items when I need them or when they become available.



The main advantage to splitting them is that the 'majority of reefers' can not pay for function they don't need or want, and others can. Not everyone wants LSM, but for me it is critical. Not everyone needs additional pH and temp probes. Not everyone needs more than 11 wirelessly controlled pumps/lights. Not everyone needs to measure PAR. Not everyone need to monitor flow. Not everyone needs leak detectors. Not everyone needs a trident. Etc. That all seems like huge advantage too many reefers at all different levels. If a company tried to put all that in one unit, they would get lambasted for being expensive and making people buy things they don't need. Modules are an elegant solution.



I never used it - at the time I didn't trust it and the programming looked like a huge pain. I didn't want to become a coding expert, I wanted to deal with animals.

Agreed that the only time modularity is useful when a new function come up and you do not need to change your whole controller. Addition of new functions via modules is something all controllers offer.(well..not all, people still needed to upgrade controllers to get new functions).

However, for existing functions that are commodities by now like salinity, ph, orp, temp, leak detection and others, Having such integrated in the same controller, at the same price point means less money, less efforts and less wires which is an advantage...at least for avrage customer....
You are not avrage consumer I am sure you agree)

Oh btw digital aquatica reefkeeper did not need coding did it? I had it way back before Neptune came to market. Apex is the one that needed coding...maybe am getting old and forgetting things ha ha
Cheers rich.

 

[User1]

Agreed that the only time modularity us useful when a new function come up and you do not need to change your whole controller which is something all controller offer.(well..not all, people still needed to upgrade controllers to get new functions).

However, for existing functions that are commodities by now like salinity ph and others, Having such integrated in the same controller which means less money and less wires is an advantage at least from avrage customer standpoint...
You are not avrage consumer I am sure you agree)

Oh btw digital aquatica reefkeeper did not need coding did it? I had it way back before Neptune came to market. Apex is the one that needed coding...maybe am getting old and forgetting things ha ha
Cheers rich.

I know in 2000 the Neptune I had required programming. I do not recall if they had a Wizard at the time but even if they did I probably wouldn't have used it. It was basic Boolean logic if I recall plus whatever built in functions they had to control the X10 relays. Their helpers today can pretty much cover most tasks I'd wager.

This hobby is in dire need of standards but I expect we will never see any. Everybody wants to use their own dongles or controllers rather than taking a step back to see how they can integrate. Boggles my mind really.

 

[mitch91175]

This hobby is in dire need of standards but I expect we will never see any. Everybody wants to use their own dongles or controllers rather than taking a step back to see how they can integrate. Boggles my mind really.

Yeah every manufacturer wants you to stay within their eco-system. I understand both the consumer desires and business aspects though. Less overhead/finger-pointing, but does make us hobbyists have to sometimes make decisions based on the controller versus the product. I do my best to make decision on the product, but still have to keep in mind what I am already doing with the system and how the new product would fit in.

Heck even with the current level of system integration, if you call one vendor and tell them their product is connected to an Apex, they tell you to call Neptune Systems.

 

[Entz]

This hobby is in dire need of standards but I expect we will never see any. Everybody wants to use their own dongles or controllers rather than taking a step back to see how they can integrate. Boggles my mind really.

Agreed. I got an Apex because I wanted a single dashboard. At the time everyone was doing modules, 0-10v was on everything and IoTA was coming out and it seemed like everyone was holding hands and singing songs and it was one controller to rule them all. Even if it is just read-only information that is better than none (i.e. using a PH probe input for an Alk testing device). It was a great place to be.... now today everyone is doing their own thing and I have to log into 5 different Apps just to tweak settings.

TBH Apex or GHL could build in redundancy if they wanted, for example having 2 brains on the network (Aquabus/PAB) that do heartbeat checking & cross checks or multiple controllers in a dosing pump with separate independent inputs (multipathing) but I don't see a demand for it. Maybe someone will come out with a commercial, price isn't an issue, line at some point with backups and redundancies where literally half your stuff would need to die before your calcium reactor or doser decided it wanted to kill your tank.

Thinking more and more, honestly I think a KHG is more in line with what I want if I dont go trident/KHD+ION. Controller independence but still being able to monitor is HUGE

 

[GoVols]

The easy setup is one of the reasons I decided on the Trident! Still no luck getting one but patience is a key in this hobby!

@leepink23

Proud for you, on making your final decision.

You have researched all the options, and happy... , you found the right fit for you.

 

[road_runner]

Agreed. I got an Apex because I wanted a single dashboard. At the time everyone was doing modules, 0-10v was on everything and IoTA was coming out and it seemed like everyone was holding hands and singing songs and it was one controller to rule them all. Even if it is just read-only information that is better than none (i.e. using a PH probe input for an Alk testing device). It was a great place to be.... now today everyone is doing their own thing and I have to log into 5 different Apps just to tweak settings.

TBH Apex or GHL could build in redundancy if they wanted, for example having 2 brains on the network (Aquabus/PAB) that do heartbeat checking & cross checks or multiple controllers in a dosing pump with separate independent inputs (multipathing) but I don't see a demand for it. Maybe someone will come out with a commercial, price isn't an issue, line at some point with backups and redundancies where literally half your stuff would need to die before your calcium reactor or doser decided it wanted to kill your tank.

Thinking more and more, honestly I think a KHG is more in line with what I want if I dont go trident/KHD+ION. Controller independence but still being able to monitor is HUGE

Remember khg is monitor and control.
You can is to test only or to test and dose , It contain a doser.
I have it connected to to an outlet so if something went wrong for any reason I turn it off and stop the dosing.

 

[Entz]

Remember khg is monitor and control.
You can is to test only or to test and dose , It contain a doser.
I have it connected to to an outlet so if something went wrong for any reason I turn it off and stop the dosing.

That is a good idea.
Can you schedule it to dose a certain amount on an interval or is it automatic mode only? I still am not sure what I trust more, a separate doser with a manual interval or something that is chasing numbers. I swear someone needs to make a little flow checker that you can put on the output of these peristaltic pumps and if it moves more than x amount it sounds and alarm or triggers something.

 

[road_runner]

That is a good idea.
Can you schedule it to dose a certain amount on an interval or is it automatic mode only? I still am not sure what I trust more, a separate doser with a manual interval or something that is chasing numbers. I swear someone needs to make a little flow checker that you can put on the output of these peristaltic pumps and if it moves more than x amount it sounds and alarm or triggers something.

I tried to do that once but apex fmm screwd me over. It kept locking up and closing the solniod which almost caused me a disaster.
To answer your question about the dosing. If you enable monitor and control on the khg it will dose as it see fit to maintain the kh level you set to. I do not think you can schedule specific intervals for the dosing cause it will link the dosing based on the test. Based on the test result it will dose to correct kh..but I am not 100% sure I should go and check when am back home..it might be capable..I just used the default function out of the box.
I started with kh monitor then after 2 years using it I trusted it for the dosing so I bought a 2nd khg that is monitor and control.
Good thing now. The khg monitor and control is the same price as the monitor only I believe...