Trying to grow sps

[tjnorthdakota]

possible. but i dont see frags dying in 3 days attributing to an ato.

dude has other issues

Agreed, I have had problems with supply here in nd, frag comes in looking perfect so I buy it only for it to die on me couple days later. Attributed iy to shipping stress and not waiting for the frag to sit in the lfs for awhile to see if its healthy

 

[Russ265]

Agreed, I have had problems with supply here in nd, frag comes in looking perfect so I buy it only for it to die on me couple days later. Attributed iy to shipping stress and not waiting for the frag to sit in the lfs for awhile to see if its healthy

its possible. but ive had completely bleached acros recover after transport.

im not saying suggestions here are wrong. but lets get some perespective here.

one common denominator.

your tank.

lets go beyond that. this isnt my tank. idc what you do. how you do it. ill chime in if we can focus on the heart of the matter.

if you think im a bully in how i go about it... so be it. i only want successful reefers. i dont care how many feelings i hurt to make them successful!

how do we get the op to be successful? that is all i care about here. i hope we can all chime in to do it. but dont get angry because i can rule out something as silly as an ato.

 

[tjnorthdakota]

Problem is shipping in the winter here, heat packs dont work so well in a non heated ups truck at 20 below lol

 

[Acroporaaddict]

I would recommend testing parameters with a different test kit or take some water to the lfs and have them test it.

I personally don't take care of my corals or fish, I take care of the water. Get your parameters as close to nsw as possible. Keep them there and your tank inhabitants will thrive. Stability is key with SPS

 

[sharkboy99999]

so give us the parameters of your water.

refractometer or hydrometer?

you have any nitrate or phosphate readings? test kit type?(api red sea etc)

when was the last time you changed your sandbed?

length of time before the birdsnest kicked the bucket?

temp swings? size of tank?

paint us a picture
sorry. just troubleshooting

I had a sps tank no Rodi or ato everything grew just fine. By far the best tank (growth and color) I've had well till it cracked

i dont get this ato for sps thing.

there was another thread that rated ato and rodi unit as more important than light. lol. pure convenience factors to help an aquarist... not necessary.

 

[Russ265]

I would recommend testing parameters with a different test kit or take some water to the lfs and have them test it.

I personally don't take care of my corals or fish, I take care of the water. Get your parameters as close to nsw as possible. Keep them there and your tank inhabitants will thrive. Stability is key with SPS

best advice yet.

 

[Russ265]

funny how as bullish as i may seem... at the end of the day it comes down to keeping water.

please realize. that is how you will be succesful. idc if you use mary poppin's magic bag. keep the water.

 

[robby2782]

like any forum. the truth comes out naturally if you let it. dont take it personally

Nothing personal taken. There is no natural truth that comes out by patronizing others with different opinions or experience that contradict with personal beliefs or experience. The overall goal is consistently managing the right parameters from lights, flow, nutrients, and water chemistry. There are endless ways of achieving this, and while a lot of the information people post isn't always accurate, there's a lot of information that is.

I agree an ATO isn't completely necessary from my personal experience, but neither is a lot of other equipment that people use (eg; skimmers, wave makers, bio pellets,CO2 scrubbers, etc). Conversely, I prefer to use one after 10 years without an ATO. For the record, I use everything else mentioned that's not necessary.

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

Hello, following along and jumping in with my 2 cents. I think 79 degrees is too hot. I'm running a successful 95% SPS Coral System and my temp is 76 degrees. If you do your research you'll find that global warming of our Oceans are a major contributor to coral bleaching. It only takes a couple of degree change, high or low, to cause corals to bleach. Also, I used to run LED's and MH's. I didn't get the color and growth I wanted. It turns out the combination gave me a PAR reading that was way too high. I then did further research and found that most successful SPS hobbyists are running T5's with LED supplement. So I sold my lighting equipment and converted to ATI 8x80 Sunpower fixture with ReefBrite Blue fixture. I found that the T5's put out the PAR range more suitable for SPS. I also started using KZ Products along with such products as Acropower. The difference in my SPS growth and color are like night and day.

 

[ou12004]

again... convenience.

i can grow sps with a good light
sps wont grow with a good ato. show me ONE sps tank that has awesome growth because of an ato... never will happen. ill outgrow them any day of the week.

i agree that its good to automate. However to say without an ato you will fail is disingenuous at best.

also if your 29 gallon tank evapped 3 gallons you took a 2 week vacation.

all this garbage about doc is dumb too. i have no skimmer and grow whatever sps i want.

i think the op is missing something else

im not trying to be a jerk... but lets get a bit more real here. you kids on the ato or skimmer bandwagon need to get with the times.

Not sure why you feel so strongly about manually adding water each day instead of filling a 5 gallon bucket once a WEEK and only changing the salinity small amounts but if it works for you great. After 2 weeks I would have lost 8-10 gallons not 2.
I was not saying ATO's grow corals I was pointing to one potential problem, one I had because I have a life and don't sit in front of my tank and pour fresh water in all day. I have to travel for work so I am away from my tanks for a week at a time, so adding 5-6 gallons when I get back is a problem for my tank. Didn't realize it was my skimmer that was the problem.

 

[Scott.h]

With low nutrients and high dkh, sps are more prone to burning tips and slowing/starving for nutrients. lowering the dkh responsibly won't cause some crazy Ill fated swing.

Personally I don't believe he has low nutrients. Speaking from past experience with API I believe his nitrates are 40 or so. But there are several successful SPS tanks running higher kh then 10.5. Its one level having a relationship with another level and keeping that level the same. We aren't keeping fish and coral. We are keeping water. If you keep water you can keep just about anything. Richard Ross had a mind blowing speech about his 150 sps tank and having something like phosphates at 1.8. We only test for something like 6% of what's in our water, and at that our tests kits are off as well. 15 years ago I ran a wet dry filter, no protein skimmer, and nobody tested for phosphate. And things survived. And by the way there were no Internet forums to gain knowledge from either, which is an awesome tool.

I believe he has the ability to keep sps, but his question is all about the knowledge of why and how. It all starts with stable water conditions.

Btw I have one thriving tank without an auto top off. But my display lid and fuge top are sealed so my evaporation on 85 gallons is about a quart a day. And I'm quite in tune with it. Pint in the am, a pint in the pm. 1025 every time. No big deal. But if you have to funds surely use the tools!

 

[dankreef]

No one ever said you need an ato or you won't be able to grow sps. Everyone just knows it's more convient to have one and makes life easier. As for skimmers some systems run fine without I run mine super low so it mostly just adds lots of oxygen to the water which is good for everything imo. There's no right way to do a reef tank. Also I think he should be suspended for disrespecting everyone. Personal vote

 

[Alvin Alejandro]

call me whatever you want. ato's dont save corals. much less grow them. guy has water param issues. could be his salinity is too high. but that is NOT because he doesnt have an ato.

crawl back under the rock where the skimmer kids lie. they are reeling at my sps growth and no skimmer.

maybe show me this magic ato process where polyps extend and growth magnifies. it doesnt make a difference if the quality isnt there. ato doesnt even improve quality. it just hydrates.

now go look up internet memes to your heart's content but you are not helping this guy.

and yes. im coming off as a jerk... but dear lord, you guys act like you just started reefing yesterday.

You may not have to have a protein skimmer but they are a way of exporting nutrients out of your tank and a very effective way to do so. People have succes in very many different ways let's not get carried away and think your way is the only way to be successful... Sure you don't need an ato but it makes it easier and more stable you're right you won't grow corals having one but does that make it not important? No. Ato are great that way you're not relying on yourself to remember to add freshwater to the tank at a carry aim time everyday and makes it to where salinity don't bounce around so much. So don't bash on other people just because they're doing things differently than you. Good for you that you have success the way you run your tank. Now let other chime in with their success so they can help this guy out. it's not that serious.

 

[Russ265]

You may not have to have a protein skimmer but they are a way of exporting nutrients out of your tank and a very effective way to do so. People have succes in very many different ways let's not get carried away and think your way is the only way to be successful... Sure you don't need an ato but it makes it easier and more stable you're right you won't grow corals having one but does that make it not important? No. Ato are great that way you're not relying on yourself to remember to add freshwater to the tank at a carry aim time everyday and makes it to where salinity don't bounce around so much. So don't bash on other people just because they're doing things differently than you. Good for you that you have success the way you run your tank. Now let other chime in with their success so they can help this guy out. it's not that serious.

im not bashing atos. The op is having issues growing sps. When atos are mentioned as the cause, it is wrong.
"well if you just bought an ato the corals will start growing" is not helping the op in the very least.
if he goes out and buys an ato because most people said that would fix his problem and it doesnt work, what then?

"needs uv" -op goes and buys
"needs controller" -op buys neptune controller
"needs a chiller" - op buys a chiller

etc etc etc

the cause of his losses are not lack of equipment. the equipment fixes the cause.

atos do not grow nor lose coral. if you leave your tank unattended for weeks, by all means. ato will bridge that gap and evap/salinity swings is the cause. But this guy is attempting to overcome sps losses. comparing bashing an ato to losing an sps due to ato is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[Russ265]

No one ever said you need an ato or you won't be able to grow sps. Everyone just knows it's more convient to have one and makes life easier. As for skimmers some systems run fine without I run mine super low so it mostly just adds lots of oxygen to the water which is good for everything imo. There's no right way to do a reef tank. Also I think he should be suspended for disrespecting everyone. Personal vote

What a fascist idea.

Disagreeing that an ato causes sps losses is disrespecting everyone who owns an ato now.

I expect this behavior from RC.... the home of silencing dissenting opinion.

/sarcasm

-nevermind the op ruled evap out at earlier point if you read his response.

im gonna bail on this thread. seems you guys have it covered and the consensus is that the op needs an ato and he will stop losing sps. - make sure you mention you have one when they test your water at the LFS. lack of "do you have an ato" test kits are prevalent in this hobby.

 

[fragit]

I feel someone needs to jump in here. Some people have totally thrown the train off the tracks. The poor OP is seeking help, and some of these comments are anything but helpful. I for one would be very upset if I started a thread seeking help and it was high jacked by other members seeking a debate. For you that are into debating this and that please start a separate thread. Let's offer this person some useful help.

So in that vain... I personally would take a hard look at temp, and alk. If you alk is 10.5 when you test and I'm guessing your testing during the day. At night when your lights are out it will go up. This is one reason many people run refugiums on an opposing lighting schedule, it helps to stabilize alkalinity. 11 dkh is the high range and when you are testing your already walking the line. I would suggest to start check your alkalinity in the middle of the night, I'll bet you find that it is upward of 11 maybe more. You've got now padding built into your parameters to accommodate any fluctuations. Even with your temp too. IMO, drop those two (temp and alk) alk should be slow, and you will see more success.

Again please offer comments that will be helpful to the OP. Just my 2c

 

[Servillius]

I'm new here so I'll say this with caution. My gut based on my experience is that there is a nutrient issue compounded by a "unknown nutrient" issue. Thats kind of a way of saying I think the tank is dirtier than the test kits are letting on. I say this because I've had the same experience several times.

I've solved it with algae scrubbers. There are other ways. Scrubbers are the easiest I've found. LEDs and carbon dosing have both seemed fiddly to me. They both work just fine, but the experience level needed to get them right every time is higher. When I was using carbon and LEDs, things would get out of whack frequently. It was almost always a matter of one of the major or minor nutrients going a bit sideways. That black monti thing is exactly the sort of thing that happened. I have pics somewhere.

I get the impression you don't have a skimmer and that started a war. You don't need a skimmer. Unless you know what you're doing however, I'd suggest getting one. They pull out a lot of unknowns (some good). Along with water changes, they can really help keep things simple.

 

[Russ265]

im going to side a bit with @Servillius and @fragit on their way about troubleshooting this rather than putting the carriage before the horse.

something is up with the water. as mentioned before it could be alk or nutrients. faulty refractometer can do this albeit i usually see the corals slowly let go. temp or alk swings can also be at play.

usually if alk is too high the tips burn first. i see base up stn. polyps retracted on a nest is a dead giveaway something isnt right. more flow can rule that out.

if we trust his nutrient numbers (id still get a LFS to verify) then a skimmer nor an ats will help him. i find his numbers a little odd because the pictures tell us otherwise.

if you believe its DOC overdose, rule it out with a bag of carbon in the filteration. is there improvement? maybe doc is the cause.

@twilliard had issues keeping sps too. his nest would go out like that. his tests read fine and triton came back fine. he has a skimmer.

in the end i said the same thing i will advise here. check your substrate and clear it of debris and do a big water change. our test kits can only test a small fraction of whats really in the water.

good luck

 

[Ectogamut]

Are you carbon dosing at all? I had a base-up STN event by not properly dosing Red Sea NO3-PO4-X. I thought that I had reduced both my NO3 and PO4 to 0, but in actuality I had really lowered my NO3 to 0 while PO4 built up in my rock and substrate. Once the rock was full, the PO4 started to "spill over" into the water column, causing a nightmare for my acros. It took a lot of GFO and water changes to get it all out of the system!

 

[nervousmonkey]

idc if you use mary poppin's magic bag. keep the water.

Man, I used to use Mary's bag years ago and it just took care of the water for me. Wish they still made em.
I think the point of all this is that in order to keep any corals, but especially SPS, water quality is of utmost importance. We can debate equipment all day, T5 vs LED, skimmer or no (Russ proved that one though), but if all that stuff we can buy that make us feel better about ourselves as tank caretakers don't actually make the the water better daily then nothing else really matters.