Looks like Ill have to make an effort to visit more tropical diving areas
Cool, you can head the black market coral underground. :xd:
u.s. considers coral ban!!!!
- Thread starter Troylee
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Cool, you can head the black market coral underground. :xd:
Ian
Valuable Member
SHHHHHHHH!!!!! Don't blow my cover :tongue:
I would have no problem giving up this hobby. It would only mean I would have more free time and money
OP
OP
Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
I would have no problem giving up this hobby. It would only mean I would have more free time and money
Alright mark hand that reef of the month over.... I'll pay the shipping or just come get it lol....
Alright mark hand that reef of the month over.... I'll pay the shipping or just come get it lol....
Sure, just pay fair market price and its all yours, Heck, I'll even split shipping with you
LegoZ81
Well-Known Member
Some people blindly follow the pack... If everyone did this and never questioned common beliefs then society would not evolve. Climate change research and data is highly suspect. Again with today's levels of CO2 we should have MUCH higher average global temperatures than we do now. You are being closed minded to not look at both sides of the issue. The locations and number of temperature stations has not stayed constant which skews the collection of data. If I put a thermometer on the north side of my house for 5 days and then on the south side for 5 days the data would show that the second 5 days were hotter due to direct warming of the thermometer by the sun. You are a die hard man-made climate change believer and nothing, not even another ice age will sway you as it will just be extreme weather due to the higher temperatures from too much co2.
No BREATHING too much CO2
:snicker::snicker::snicker::snicker:
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Take it easy on Elan, a reefer who cares for sure. We have most certainly changed our environment, to argue this point is ridiculous. The problem with cows is that ranchers have torn down the trees for grazing pasture, and so the methane production is higher than it ever was and there are much fewer trees to clean the air. We as reefers should be the one group that actually gets that even small changes over time can make drastic changes to an ecosystem and can even lead to toxicity for some species. Now back to the topic: Coral Collection bans. It is coming, and hopefully we can get a few more species in private hands before that happens.
LegoZ81
Well-Known Member
I'll drop man-made climate change as no amount of information will sway you or others belief in some of the most unsound scientific information that has been delivered as fact in the past 100 years.
So they ban collection of large subset of coral because it is dying in the wild, remove the ability to move corals across state lines and hamper captive propagation progress by forcing federal permits . What will this achieve except condemning the species to extinction? Tax coral imports, give tax exceptions to sales of captive propagated species. Punish "bad" behavior, Reward "good" behavior. This has been proven to work.
looking at my tank tonite i realized something , i have unkowingly filled it with aquacultured coral, prolly 80%. My LFS are nothing special so i go to you guys. Its working just fine. Prolly cost me a few extra bucks but what the hey, this hobby isn't cheap.
Stricter regulations that create a sustainable "harvest" of corals is what is in order.
An outright ban is ridiculous if you think about it, you think those divers in Indonesia are just gonna get new jobs? This is an extremeist group and they need to demand the most extreme solution. Do we have a group in place that is providing FACTS to our politicians so they can make a better decision?
Stricter regulations that create a sustainable "harvest" of corals is what is in order.
An outright ban is ridiculous if you think about it, you think those divers in Indonesia are just gonna get new jobs? This is an extremeist group and they need to demand the most extreme solution. Do we have a group in place that is providing FACTS to our politicians so they can make a better decision?
how bad is it to warm the planet a few degrees...sounds good to me(for humans) the alternative is what? letting the climate slip into its natural cycle if ice ages between now and the next 100,000...which would obviously be devastating to mankind.
Thing's to do to stop global warming I really honestly hate this debate. I actually hate lot of debate because people cant put themselves in other people shoes and have a humane debate without going bananas.
STOP EATING MEAT
DONT WIPE UR butt
DONT DRIVE
DONT USE ELECTRICITY
STOP REEFING
Yes this list can go on forever but the thing is people wont turn a new leaf until its already too late. I forgot what theory is this called -_-'' but anyway lets be open minded guys.
STOP EATING MEAT
DONT WIPE UR butt
DONT DRIVE
DONT USE ELECTRICITY
STOP REEFING
Yes this list can go on forever but the thing is people wont turn a new leaf until its already too late. I forgot what theory is this called -_-'' but anyway lets be open minded guys.
Elan
Well-Known Member
im just saying that people shouldnt go on calling a scientific statement (or theory) "propoganda" or hoax. now that is close mindedness. i try to look at both sides too. some of the things you have said i have taken into consideration. oh and fyi, the effect of global warming would, in fact, be an ice age. people shouldnt focus on the one word "warm".
This is exactly my problem with the climate change/global warming whatever the catch phrase is. They will tie it to everything: oceans drying up, ice caps melting, 2nd ice age, sand storms, earth quakes, more hurricanes, less hurricanes. Just because you put the word scientific in front of the word theory doesn't make it set in stone. Steven Hawkings reversed his own theory on black holes. You can find just as many scientists that think that any warming is due to sunspot activity and has nothing to do with man and also is part of a larger/longer cycle that will go up and down long after we are all dust and there is nothing we can do to alter it.
So far, everyone that doesn't buy into your thought process is either close-minded or ignorant...hmmmm a saying comes to mind here....something about a pot and a kettle.
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Let's keep this thread civil as it is now......Normally we don't allow topics like this due to the flame fest that it turns into.....Stay on topic which is banning of a huge number of corals based on an agenda of environmentalist. With little factual scientific bases for the petition to the government. If you look at my first post in this thread even one of the scientist research they use for a basis of this doesn't agree with the extent purpose of the petition.....The discussion has turned to Global Warming/Climate Change what ever the new terminology is now.....This is not the purpose of the topic but banning the collection of corals by us "Reef Rapers"......
wishntoboutside
Snow flake
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Just let me stock up on ten years worth of salt and its all good. after that one would declare any tank a museam of living art.
This is what I don't understand. Comments like this that obviously support the bill and want to stop the collecting of coral from the reefs(unless I missed the tone of sarcasm then sorry) but when you look at recent posts, he buys this sps from this vendor and another from that vendor...etc. Where do you think the vendors get them? I guess it's the do as I say and not as I do mentality. Maybe it's just me but this confuses the crap out of me. So are you against collecting from the reefs or not? Not trying to flame just to understand the train of thought. If I'm way outta line here then I apologize...:bigsmile:
agtrader
New Member
you have no idea what youre talking about. if youve ever been diving in indo, you would know what a complete joke this is. even if there were 10x as many people picking corals out of the collection areas, they still wouldnt be able to keep up with the regrowth. i have a picture somewhere of football fields of blue zoas. most corals start growing on top of each other, killing what was there before if theyre not picked. as far as the acropora, the majority coming in are already maricultured. there are so many racks of abandoned cultured SPS, that the racks themselves are forming mini reefs. not to mention the collection areas are such a small percentage of the overall reef itself. divers can only get to certain areas safely.
there are a few that do take a long time to grow even in the wild, blastos being one of them.. and the CITES reflects this already.
this is from a station owner in the solomons:
it is not such a good thing for the exporting countries or for the reefs in those countries. Coastal villages need to make a small amount of money for their living expenses and school fees, it is not much but they need something. They rely totally on what resource they have to sell. When they can not sell small fish, corals, farmed corals, etc. the next option for them is to start selling their trees. I am in the Solomons now and it is terrible to see all of the logs and timber going out right now. Cut down the trees and the runoff kills reef, not just little bits here and there but huge tracts of reef. There is a new hotel development in town that wanted a new dock / warf and got approval to build it, of course they are very enviromentally aware using palm wood in construction, and giving lip service to their solar water heating and power generation but by building the little warf killed acres of reef filled with montipora digitata. The aquarium trade could never use as much digita as was killed in one small project. It is the same with the trees, if village people can make what they need by selling products collected from their reef they protect their trees, they do not want to sell them but when forced to make a choice between sending their children to school or saving their tree they choose the future of their children knowing that cutting down the trees is a bad thing. Taking the farming away from village growers is a bad thing for the reefs, aquarium collecting is one of the best things that can be done for the health of the reefs in rural village areas.
