WARNING: Avoid latest AOS updates!

[trevorhiller]

I didn’t have the dosing issue, but trying to do the update bricked my Apex. I’m still waiting for it to come back. It sounds like that may have been a blessing because I also dose NaOH.

The second blessing was it forced me to look seriously at Hydros for my next tank. Maybe if Neptune had a little better customer service for this issue, some of this money would have been coming to them.

Hopefully they’ll get this nonsense worked out.

Finally my repair is done!

TL;DR: Don’t do the update if you aren’t getting a benefit from it ie. Trident NP

1. May 10th AOS Update bricked my Apex
2. May 16th I mail my Apex head unit back after taking a week to get an RMA #. Pennsylvania -> Pennsylvania. $6.73 shipping, $6.73 return shipping label provided by me.
3. May 22nd I pay $53 for repair (microsd card replacement), quoted 2-5 day turn around
4. June 14th they ship my apex back with my return label after 2 emails asking what is going on.

I frankly don’t give two ***** about the $60, but you bricked my Apex with your rushed update and then charge me to fix it and take a month to replace a microsd card? Perhaps I’m missing something here, but that’s pretty garbage customer service.

I really wish they would have suggested I could try the card replacement myself before sending it back to them because I have multiple sitting around my house. Shame on me for not doing research myself to see if there were any DIY fixes. I was in a hurry to to get it turned around quickly and it made that very clear in my original support ticket.

Of note, it looks like Ecotech is now doing the repair for Neptune which I’m sure has contributed to the speed bumps in the process.

To Neptune: perhaps try to speed up your repair dept. During the month of you having my Apex and me twiddling my thumbs while my frustration built I did a little research and bought a Hydros system.

The Apex will stay on my current tank until it’s shut down and the new tank is going to be run by Hydros.

 

[ca1ore]

Curious how replacing the microSD card seems to be a universal 'fix' for ailing Apex units. My A2 died for reasons hitherto unknown and new card restored functionality (if not my programming).

 

[theatrus]

Curious how replacing the microSD card seems to be a universal 'fix' for ailing Apex units. My A2 died for reasons hitherto unknown and new card restored functionality (if not my programming).

Hypotheticals include data on the SD card which the firmware couldn't handle (due to code changes, prior bugs writing invalid data, etc). Replacing it will reset the state here.

 

[Troylee]

Finally my repair is done!

TL;DR: Don’t do the update if you aren’t getting a benefit from it ie. Trident NP

1. May 10th AOS Update bricked my Apex
2. May 16th I mail my Apex head unit back after taking a week to get an RMA #. Pennsylvania -> Pennsylvania. $6.73 shipping, $6.73 return shipping label provided by me.
3. May 22nd I pay $53 for repair (microsd card replacement), quoted 2-5 day turn around
4. June 14th they ship my apex back with my return label after 2 emails asking what is going on.

I frankly don’t give two ***** about the $60, but you bricked my Apex with your rushed update and then charge me to fix it and take a month to replace a microsd card? Perhaps I’m missing something here, but that’s pretty garbage customer service.

I really wish they would have suggested I could try the card replacement myself before sending it back to them because I have multiple sitting around my house. Shame on me for not doing research myself to see if there were any DIY fixes. I was in a hurry to to get it turned around quickly and it made that very clear in my original support ticket.

Of note, it looks like Ecotech is now doing the repair for Neptune which I’m sure has contributed to the speed bumps in the process.

To Neptune: perhaps try to speed up your repair dept. During the month of you having my Apex and me twiddling my thumbs while my frustration built I did a little research and bought a Hydros system.

The Apex will stay on my current tank until it’s shut down and the new tank is going to be run by Hydros.

That sucks… I’ve only had to deal with them once, last year and my experience was different.. I bought a used one and it was stuck in the boot loader.. they tried to help me over the phone and outcome was this..
pay $200 deposit we will ship you a refurbished unit and when we get yours we will refund you and they did just that! Cost me zero in shipping and got my deposit back once they received my damaged unit.

 

[Jimbo327]

Finally my repair is done!

TL;DR: Don’t do the update if you aren’t getting a benefit from it ie. Trident NP

1. May 10th AOS Update bricked my Apex
2. May 16th I mail my Apex head unit back after taking a week to get an RMA #. Pennsylvania -> Pennsylvania. $6.73 shipping, $6.73 return shipping label provided by me.
3. May 22nd I pay $53 for repair (microsd card replacement), quoted 2-5 day turn around
4. June 14th they ship my apex back with my return label after 2 emails asking what is going on.

I frankly don’t give two ***** about the $60, but you bricked my Apex with your rushed update and then charge me to fix it and take a month to replace a microsd card? Perhaps I’m missing something here, but that’s pretty garbage customer service.

I really wish they would have suggested I could try the card replacement myself before sending it back to them because I have multiple sitting around my house. Shame on me for not doing research myself to see if there were any DIY fixes. I was in a hurry to to get it turned around quickly and it made that very clear in my original support ticket.

Of note, it looks like Ecotech is now doing the repair for Neptune which I’m sure has contributed to the speed bumps in the process.

To Neptune: perhaps try to speed up your repair dept. During the month of you having my Apex and me twiddling my thumbs while my frustration built I did a little research and bought a Hydros system.

The Apex will stay on my current tank until it’s shut down and the new tank is going to be run by Hydros.

That's terrible! It's not like you did anything wrong besides updating your unit to a released firmware.

 

[aSaltyKlown]

I really wish they would have suggested I could try the card replacement myself before sending it back to them because I have multiple sitting around my house.

The card replacement was the first offer.

I have two options to offer you. I could provide you with some instructions explaining how to swap out the micro SD card on this unit, which may resolve the issue. However, if this does not work or you and your family don't feel comfortable attempting the repair, then you can also send in your Apex to our repair team as well.

First contact was June 6th, replies are pretty slow. Not impressed with support right now. If the card doesn't fix it, I may be looking at another few weeks to get back up and running. ugh

 

[Bpp124987]

Anything new?

 

[Naekuh]

Curious how replacing the microSD card seems to be a universal 'fix' for ailing Apex units. My A2 died for reasons hitherto unknown and new card restored functionality (if not my programming).

you know teslas had this problem with the mcu too.

lol... too many writes and reads on the cards lead to them failing.
Hence why tesla now uses larger capacity storage, and provisions about half of it for fail safe.

 

[theatrus]

you know teslas had this problem with the mcu too.

lol... too many writes and reads on the cards lead to them failing.
Hence why tesla now uses larger capacity storage, and provisions about half of it for fail safe.

The original APEX Classic (e.g. AquaController) also had this problem, except you had to desolder a SPI flash chip. Did a few of those repairs over the years...

Fixing a broken APEX Classic main unit

A few weeks ago my APEX Classic (it wasn't classic when I bought it!) had failed, in a disastrous way: the system had effectively locked up and did not respond to inputs or control any outputs. Upon further debugging, it was even latching up after rebooting, usually a short while into the boot...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[hunterallen40]

Anything new?

No, nothing new. I really hate this... I just want my nice, shiny, quiet, new doser back. But I can't trust it.

Rest assured the good folks at Neptune systems are still on the job. It's a very tricky thing to fix when your repeatability is this low.

 

[Rst]

Is now time to do the Apex update or should I continue to wait? (I have the old DOS)

 

[herozero]

Is now time to do the Apex update or should I continue to wait? (I have the old DOS)

I updated my A2 with 2x old DOS units + og Trident (hw rev2 fwiw) when the update went live, but I also suffer from must-click-update-button syndrome. If the changes in firmware don't solve a problem you have or if you don't have the new modules that it supports, then there's really no reason to update. Having said that, no one has identified a root cause for some of the issues people have been seeing with their Trident/DOSQD/head unit. That's understandably of no consolation to people bitten by any of these issues, and is both an argument for and against updating.

If you've waited this long you don't suffer from MCUBS, let sleeping dogs lie comes to mind. My 2 cents.

 

[BZOFIQ]

...
3. May 22nd I pay $53 for repair (microsd card replacement), quoted 2-5 day turn around
4. June 14th they ship my apex back with my return label after 2 emails asking what is going on.



The Apex will stay on my current tank until it’s shut down and the new tank is going to be run by Hydros.

The fact that your card failed prior and the update just brought it to the surface sort to speak is certainly a possibility..... but saying 2-5 days turn around and ship it after nearly a month is just BAD!

...

The Apex will stay on my current tank until it’s shut down and the new tank is going to be run by Hydros.

I always say...vote with your money. Good for you!

 

[BZOFIQ]

Is now time to do the Apex update or should I continue to wait? (I have the old DOS)

I'd say if you dont have the new Trident nor the new DOS QD, why update at this point.

The update icon in fusion is annoying though. There should be a way to click, remind me in 30-60-90 days and let it disappear.

 

[OnPointCorals Verified Sponsor]

I did a full maintenance on both today. Checked all pinch valves, blew out all the lines. Where both are having the same issue, I sort of knew it wasn't the usual suspects.

I'm pretty confidence it has something to do with the update.

To follow up. The following night both my tridents completed all 3 tests and the next day I was able to successfully calibrate them.

Not sure what that glitch was about but it seems to be resolved.

 

[hunterallen40]

Is now time to do the Apex update or should I continue to wait? (I have the old DOS)

As others have suggested, I would not update your apex unless you are wanting to use the new trident / new doser. We have not heard a definitive statement for what causes the issue, so keep the old firmware unless you see a very good reason to update.

I am not upgrading the firmware on my display until we get some closure here.

To follow up. The following night both my tridents completed all 3 tests and the next day I was able to successfully calibrate them.

Not sure what that glitch was about but it seems to be resolved.

Very strange. Glad it's resolved!

 

[aSaltyKlown]

Is now time to do the Apex update or should I continue to wait? (I have the old DOS)

As others have said, wait if there is no need. Service told me that what happened to mine would have happened if I restarted the device. I'm suspect of that.

I haven't heard back from support since Thursday when they told me to replace the card. I did the swap and it seemed to work, however after I finished setting it up to include renaming everything and copying and pasting the code, it started to drop modules and the EB8 went out. I tried to put the old card in and that brought it back for a while, then the same thing happened. It dropped all modules. So, I am not running my tank off a power strip and manually dosing, feeding, and checking top of. At least my wave makers and lights have their own controller.

 

[hunterallen40]

As others have said, wait if there is no need. Service told me that what happened to mine would have happened if I restarted the device. I'm suspect of that.

I haven't heard back from support since Thursday when they told me to replace the card. I did the swap and it seemed to work, however after I finished setting it up to include renaming everything and copying and pasting the code, it started to drop modules and the EB8 went out. I tried to put the old card in and that brought it back for a while, then the same thing happened. It dropped all modules. So, I am not running my tank off a power strip and manually dosing, feeding, and checking top of. At least my wave makers and lights have their own controller.

That doesn't sound fun at all. Hopefully you get that worked out soon!

 

[mousehunter]

Watching this tread with interest. While it is possible that the update was buggy, I am beginning to feel it was not so much a buggy update, but that the update exposed an underlying weakness of the SD card system. If my understanding is correct, at it's core - The apex is a data collection and storage device that has been adapted for control automation. That said, it is not a mission critical enterprise class server system. It was made at a price point - because NOBODY would pay for a mission critical enterprise class environmental control system (well other than maybe goverment entities). It is not designed like the system for a orbital space station or moon base for instance - but for us, failure can be catastrophic. It probably has limited redundency in it's system, limited self diagnostics, and limited hot swapping.

So we apparently are dealing with a low cost provider of SD cards, in a system that was not specifically designed to stretch every inch of life out of the SD cards - coupled with a data collection and database device that is collecting data every second and storing it almost as frequently. A devices that was also probably made with off the shelf components to hit a price point that was sustainable.

The update triggered failures in the SD card because it was an infrequent, but significant, amount of SD card writes - it broke the camels back. Hopefully Neptune will get data from this and implement changes to increase the life of the SD cards (both it's write system, and possibly using a more robust card). I hope it is not the straw that breaks Neptune's back - as I have a nearly complete new Neptune system sitting on shelves waiting for me to build the tank stand it is going into.

That said, I suspect EVERY other controller system will eventually deal with SD card issues. The only real question is how they address SD card management. We routinely replace tank heaters, perhaps we should put SD cards into the same category.

 

[hunterallen40]

Watching this tread with interest. While it is possible that the update was buggy, I am beginning to feel it was not so much a buggy update, but that the update exposed an underlying weakness of the SD card system. If my understanding is correct, at it's core - The apex is a data collection and storage device that has been adapted for control automation. That said, it is not a mission critical enterprise class server system. It was made at a price point - because NOBODY would pay for a mission critical enterprise class environmental control system (well other than maybe goverment entities). It is not designed like the system for a orbital space station or moon base for instance - but for us, failure can be catastrophic. It probably has limited redundency in it's system, limited self diagnostics, and limited hot swapping.

So we apparently are dealing with a low cost provider of SD cards, in a system that was not specifically designed to stretch every inch of life out of the SD cards - coupled with a data collection and database device that is collecting data every second and storing it almost as frequently. A devices that was also probably made with off the shelf components to hit a price point that was sustainable.

The update triggered failures in the SD card because it was an infrequent, but significant, amount of SD card writes - it broke the camels back. Hopefully Neptune will get data from this and implement changes to increase the life of the SD cards (both it's write system, and possibly using a more robust card). I hope it is not the straw that breaks Neptune's back - as I have a nearly complete new Neptune system sitting on shelves waiting for me to build the tank stand it is going into.

That said, I suspect EVERY other controller system will eventually deal with SD card issues. The only real question is how they address SD card management. We routinely replace tank heaters, perhaps we should put SD cards into the same category.

Just to clarify, there are a couple of things in this thread. The original issue is not related to the SD card, and is super infrequent / hard to reproduce. We don't know what's causing that, but this is likely not related to the SD card problems.

SD card problems are the other big thing in this thread. These are not likely because of the update, but because of writes that happen during an update showing a failure.

I have been running my doser for a little while, not attached to my system. Still have not seen the bug reproduce again since I started this thread, but I still don't think I can trust it until we have identified the cause here, whether it's hardware based or software based.