Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[Malcontent]

Their product is a scam in any case and they should go out of business.

And they should return money to those who wouldn't have purchased Vibrant had they been truthful about the ingredients. AND compensate those who had livestock losses...

They should be bankrupt and homeless.

 

[rtparty]

And they should return money to those who wouldn't have purchased Vibrant had they been truthful about the ingredients. AND compensate those who had livestock losses...

They should be bankrupt and homeless.

How in the world would anyone prove this? Any of us could say I never would have bought it when we know a check is headed our way for saying it. Not a chance it ever holds up in a court and UWC would just claim bankruptcy and never pay a dime to anyone.

UWC could come out of this simply changing the label to be correct and it will still sell.

People have a really hard time understanding how few reefers are on the forums or will ever see this thread.

The retailers for our hobby may stop selling it but Amazon won't. Many LFS that don't follow this stuff will still sell it.

In 2018, it was estimated there were 2.5M marine aquarium owners. I could see that number being 3-4M today with how much the hobby grew during COVID. R2R is one of the largest (probably is the largest) marine hobby forums out there. How many visitors does this site see a day? 10k at most? That leave millions never seeing or hearing about this.

I'm not condoning UWC. I've been very anti-UWC in all the threads. If they've knowingly deceived us, they get whatever comes their way. Their biggest threat is the EPA, not us hobbyists.

 

[Sean Clark]

They should be bankrupt and homeless.

This a bit harsh.

 

[Malcontent]

How in the world would anyone prove this? Any of us could say I never would have bought it when we know a check is headed our way for saying it. Not a chance it ever holds up in a court and UWC would just claim bankruptcy and never pay a dime to anyone.

The standard is preponderance of evidence. Nothing needs to be proven. There are firms that specialize in economic analysis that will determine what the actual price and sales would have been had the labeling been correct.

Bankruptcy doesn't protect one from fraud judgments. Neither does forming an LLC...

UWC could come out of this simply changing the label to be correct and it will still sell.

A lot of people wouldn't put a coolant tower biocide in their tanks. After what Algaefix did to my freshwater tank I certainly wouldn't.

People have a really hard time understanding how few reefers are on the forums or will ever see this thread.

Class actions only need like a handful of lead plaintiffs from different states. Most customers may be unaware but they go to great lengths to find every potential class member. Everyone gets those postcards for something they purchased years ago when they lived in a different state.

From what I believe, total damages are calculated based on total sales and whatever modifier the economists come up with. People who register get their cut and the shares for people who don't bother to file a claim go to various charities. Either way, the defendant pays out the same predetermined amount.

It's the miracle of class actions.

 

[DopamineKata]

UWC could come out of this simply changing the label to be correct and it will still sell.

When there are identical products on the market that cost a lot less? The ONLY reason this sells at the price it does is because it's supposed to be different.

 

[rtparty]

When there are identical products on the market that cost a lot less? The ONLY reason this sells at the price it does is because it's supposed to be different.

This isn't true. The cheapest items aren't always the best selling items, especially in this hobby.

 

[Malcontent]

It's really no different than this:

Our clients, plaintiffs in a class action, alleged a manufacturer of liquor engaged in deceptive marketing and charged premium prices for its product by stating the product was “small batch” and made in a particular state even though it was actually distilled in another state. Brattle’s expert obtained data on the prices and characteristics of numerous brands of liquor, such as size of container, proof, age, whether it was labeled or advertised as “small batch,” and state listed on the label. He used econometric techniques to conduct a hedonic analysis of these data to test whether, and by how much, consumers were willing to pay more for products labeled or advertised as “small batch” or for those with a certain state listed on the label. The litigation was settled. As part of the settlement, the manufacturer agreed to provided cash payments to certain purchasers, remove the phrase “small batch” from its website and product label, and modify the product label to disclose that the product is distilled in another state than the one that was listed on the label.

If they also added some antifreeze to it...

 

[Jeffcb]

So what should I do with my bottle?

 

[happyhourhero]

I poured mine into a local estuary as I released my school of lion fish. I labeled these acts as birdwatching so it’s all good.

 

[Terence]

In the vein of random speculation....

Perhaps someone approached UWC with a product idea that was a crude bacteria and bacterial algaecide product. It ended up being not very active or too expensive or too hard to make, and someone decides to swap in a true man made algaecide, but keep the unique marketing "explanation" of the product. Might be UWC, or the "group" they mention working with.

IMO, this is the most likely scenario that I can think of where UWC may not be knowingly deceiving people.

I don't think I said they would not be responsible. But In my opinion, being scammed by a contract manufacturer is different than being the originator of the scam. In a perfect world there would be release tests, preferably done by someone other than the contract manufacturer. But low cost products may not get that sort of quality assurance.

Anyway, I'm just allowing for possibilities since we (I) have no info on who actually makes Vibrant.

This is why I went down the line of questioning on our livestream and also where my stated opinion landed at the end of the stream. Given the weight of people like RHF and CB, and assuming the testing is not flawed by a lab issue, either the company was deceptive or deceived. Exactly for the reasons Randy gave above and I am one to also leave that door open. But, as Randy said, this does not relieve them of responsibility. I feel this is especially true if in prior months/years some doubts were raised, kitchen science by others performed, etc. casting doubts - that should have made them want to do testing and make such confirmations before now. Time will tell on this one. Staying tuned...

 

[wmo168]

I can't confirm it was taken down - just what others have indicated. But to summarize, they're suspending Vibrant sales to give UWC "breathing room" to run whatever tests, quality control (etc.), that he (Ryan) had a conversation with UWC that seemed to be a lot of conjecture, that he'd (Ryan) looked at the independent testing results and found them credible and that they (BRS) hoped UWC would make a full statement to address this sooner as opposed to later.

Thanks! I saw the video and save to watch it later but it was gone... something is cooking.

 

[rmorris_14]

Thanks! I saw the video and save to watch it later but it was gone... something is cooking.

 

[Doctorgori]

gheez, I went back and re-read the sellers post…
and came up with this
Ancient Astronaut Scientist “Theorize” that bacteria can indeed make algae fertilizer for the black algae circulating around a red dwarfs habitable zone.
We further “theorize” Vibrant is just a obsolete fertilizer blend and it was Googles translators and time dialation thats to blame….

 

[Doctorgori]

Thanks! I saw the video and save to watch it later but it was gone... something is cooking.

indeed anymore I want to play these vids backwards just to be sure everything checks out

 

[DopamineKata]

gheez, I went back and re-read the sellers post…
and came up with this
Ancient Astronaut Scientist “Theorize” that bacteria can indeed make algae fertilizer for the black algae circulating around a red dwarfs habitable zone.
We further “theorize” Vibrant is just a obsolete fertilizer blend and it was Googles translators and time dialation thats to blame….

 

[Doctorgori]

It’s not that deep, bad science sells apparently
not being serious either, just trolling along

 

[Runningfanatic]

So, for those of us who did get sucked into using Vibrant (based on all the marketing), how do we get our tanks back to "normal"? Do we do a massive water change to dilute to Vibrant, even tho we have a bad case of dinos? Do we add some kind of bacteria? If so, what specific products? My larger tank (75 gal) is a hot mess right now. (Happily my nano is beautiful!) I'm at a loss what direction to take.

 

[a.t.t.r]

So, for those of us who did get sucked into using Vibrant (based on all the marketing), how do we get our tanks back to "normal"? Do we do a massive water change to dilute to Vibrant, even tho we have a bad case of dinos? Do we add some kind of bacteria? If so, what specific products? My larger tank (75 gal) is a hot mess right now. (Happily my nano is beautiful!) I'm at a loss what direction to take.

Dinos are from the lack of competition. Best bet throw in a a piece of live rock from an established tank (small bit should do). Add silicate and phosphate. Dim your lights to 0 percent and slowly raise them back up over the course of three weeks. It solved my dino issue that vibrant caused and i was fighting it for months but that is what finally worked.

 

[Runningfanatic]

Dinos are from the lack of competition. Best bet throw in a a piece of live rock from an established tank (small bit should do). Add silicate and phosphate. Dim your lights to 0 percent and slowly raise them back up over the course of three weeks. It solved my dino issue that vibrant caused and i was fighting it for months but that is what finally worked.

Thanks for the info. This tank is almost 10 years old and has plenty of live rock. Are you advising taking rock from a different tank and adding to my problem tank? Wouldn't there still be Vibrant in the system and it would render the new live rock useless?

 

[a.t.t.r]

Thanks for the info. This tank is almost 10 years old and has plenty of live rock. Are you advising taking rock from a different tank and adding to my problem tank? Wouldn't there still be Vibrant in the system and it would render the new live rock useless?

While it is unclear how it breaks down I don't think it builds up as an active algicide otherwise one dose would do the trick. I would just run your skimmer maybe add a lil phyto and do your regular water changes. Small rock from another system just to help kick off the new microflora would help. Kill dinos with diatoms and surface algae.