Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[GARRIGA]

Any sightings of UWC?

 

[happyhourhero]

Out of curiosity... Don't you feel betrayed/deceived that the company flat out lied about what's in it? (Having said that we are still waiting for UWC to respond with their testing). I didn't even buy the product and I find this deception to be very disturbing. That's the main purpose of this thread given the fact people thought they were dosing bacteria and it turns out to be an algaecide and an algaecide can gravely impact some aquatic inhabitants (even if dosed correctly). Most people don't care if it worked or not in this thread. It's the deception. It's like a food company not listing that there are nuts in their product (and knowing how many people have deadly nut allergies).

The apologists on this thread don’t care at all. #teamvibrant

 

[mindme]

Out of curiosity... Don't you feel betrayed/deceived that the company flat out lied about what's in it? (Having said that we are still waiting for UWC to respond with their testing). I didn't even buy the product and I find this deception to be very disturbing. That's the main purpose of this thread given the fact people thought they were dosing bacteria and it turns out to be an algaecide and an algaecide can gravely impact some aquatic inhabitants (even if dosed correctly). Most people don't care if it worked or not in this thread. It's the deception. It's like a food company not listing that there are nuts in their product (and knowing how many people have deadly nut allergies).

Yes of course. But I wasn't all that high on using the product already, so I'm not really affected negatively. In the past 4 years I've used a total of 1 8oz bottle and a tiny bit out of a 2nd 8oz bottle. Very rare that I used it. And I'll likely buy their competitors product if I should happen to need it in the future.

I've been around the hobby long enough that it seems somewhat common. Things claim to get rid of ich, but don't. I've wasted tons of money on snake oils. Look at purple up, it's basically just marked up Calcium. It works I guess, but it's mostly marketing and seems like without testing it would have negative effects long term. I have boxes in my garage full of equipment that didn't do what it said it would. At least this product actually worked - which is probably why people are so upset about it. It was popular because it worked....just not how it was claimed to work.

 

[mindme]

The apologists on this thread don’t care at all. #teamvibrant

That's a pretty ignorant take.

 

[Karen00]

Yes of course. But I wasn't all that high on using the product already, so I'm not really affected negatively. In the past 4 years I've used a total of 1 8oz bottle and a tiny bit out of a 2nd 8oz bottle. Very rare that I used it. And I'll likely buy their competitors product if I should happen to need it in the future.

I've been around the hobby long enough that it seems somewhat common. Things claim to get rid of ich, but don't. I've wasted tons of money on snake oils. Look at purple up, it's basically just marked up Calcium. It works I guess, but it's mostly marketing and seems like without testing it would have negative effects long term. I have boxes in my garage full of equipment that didn't do what it said it would. At least this product actually worked - which is probably why people are so upset about it. It was popular because it worked....just not how it was claimed to work.

Vibrant seems over the top though in deception. Claiming it's just bacteria when it is an algaecide. Wow! I will say the longer it takes for UWC to reply with testing results the worse it looks for them.

 

[happyhourhero]

That's a pretty ignorant take.

I just can’t stand misinformation and people justifying misleading consumers. You do you though.

 

[mindme]

I just can’t stand misinformation and people justifying misleading consumers. You do you though.

Funny, you claim you can't stand misinformation and in the same sentence do exactly that.

Show me where I have justified misleading consumers.

 

[mindme]

Vibrant seems over the top though in deception. Claiming it's just bacteria when it is an algaecide. Wow! I will say the longer it takes for UWC to reply with testing results the worse it looks for them.

When the class action lawsuit hits, I'll sign up.

Just saying it's a common problem in this hobby. I'm just as upset at the products that didn't even do what they claimed. I spent like $70 on reeflabs poly something for ich about a year and a half ago. It didn't work. I'd have much rather it have worked, and then I find out today it was something other than whatever it claimed to be. Instead, I still do "ich management".

 

[jcolliii]

mindme: Show me where I have justified misleading consumers.

okay...

How do you know if it's a violation of federal law? Do you have information other people don't have? Do you know what the concentration is?

I'm just interested in finding out the truth, and I don't find making claims without evidence to really be helpful towards that.

Here is one example - suggesting you are only after the truth and that others were saying things without evidence, when in fact, you were the one who hadn't bothered to look at the evidence.

It still could be. It says 3.5% is "other ingredients". This could be what the 3.5% is.

Here is another example where you suggest something that cannot be true as these would change the NMR given on p1.

 

[happyhourhero]

Funny, you claim you can't stand misinformation and in the same sentence do exactly that.

Show me where I have justified misleading consumers.

Just a couple of posts up you tried to normalize buying products that don’t do what they say they do. If I buy a bacterial additive, I expect it to not be algicide. You are the target consumer group for companies like that though with your full garage.

 

[MnFish1]

Correct but the other test once you know that chemical is the same can show concentrations. Ie specific gravity and several of the demand test from the original thread.
If chemical is the same (it is) and the sg is the same it can be concluded that the concentration is the same.

I didnt ask about that - lets keep it simple - I asked a simple question - not to re-review the entire thread. I appreciate your answer - you can't tell concentration from the NMR results alone - is that what you're saying? That was the question.

 

[mindme]

okay...


Here is one example - suggesting you are only after the truth and that others were saying things without evidence, when in fact, you were the one who hadn't bothered to look at the evidence.

Here is another example where you suggest something that cannot be true as these would change the NMR given on p1.

You know you could have just showed me the information when I asked for it like the other person did. And I still don't see where your statement that you couldn't know how to properly dose without hte EPA regulations. And you said that while knowing it was exactly the same dose as Algaefix. AKA, obviously the dosage is correct and within regulations.

And I was reading directly off the bottle on the 3.5%. Once again, someone else was kind enough to point out it said something different on the website. Would you like me show you the bottle?

 

[mindme]

Just a couple of posts up you tried to normalize buying products that don’t do what they say they do. If I buy a bacterial additive, I expect it to not be algicide. You are the target consumer group for companies like that though with your full garage.

I really don't care how you want to spin it, pointing out this is a large spread problem in this hobby is not justification for anything. Especially since my point was that the big difference here and those other products is that this one actually worked. People don't care about the others this much because most people don't use them.

Am I supposed to be claiming that vibrant doesn't kill algae and doesn't work?

 

[MnFish1]

I frankly still don't get the point. People (me) - that have publicly stated that Vibrant wasnt helpful - and possibly harmful - are discounted when they ask questions. There is a warning - on the most public (AFAIK) reef site in the world - and one of the biggest (if not the biggest) reseller in the USA - has said 'we're not selling the product until we have answers'. Yet - there is still a 'debate'. With whom is everyone debating? Not a rhetorical question. What is the fight here? Read the warning - which to my reading is totally appropriate? No? I will say it again - tempest in a teapot.

 

[workhz]

I really don't care how you want to spin it, pointing out this is a large spread problem in this hobby is not justification for anything. Especially since my point was that the big difference here and those other products is that this one actually worked. People don't care about the others this much because most people don't use them.

Am I supposed to be claiming that vibrant doesn't kill algae and doesn't work?

It kills algae. Work is a different animal. Work encompasses end result and how something comes about. It's like having a hang nail and getting amputated. Yes, the amputation fixed the hang nail but I wouldn't say that 'worked'.

 

[JCOLE]

Yeah, looking at your build thread it isn't clear that the Vibrant was the cause, especially since you didn't start seeing all of the corals die until 2.5 months after the last dose. It sucks though to have a big loss like this.

That is correct. I can't say that Vibrant killed my corals but I also can't say it didn't either. I posted in my thread during that time that a lot of my corals lost their color and seemed pale, etc. This was before I lost them. Whether it was Vibrant or not, l I know what happened. Something disrupted the biome and starved out the corals. I was there. I witnessed it and knew what was going on.

I have used Chemiclean and Fluconazole many of times with multiple tanks in the past with zero losses. However, I used Vibrant once and lost a couple frags and a red dragon colony. A year later I dosed Vibrant and my corals were not looking good again.

Again, I will say that yes, I cannot say Vibrant is the only reason why my corals died. But just like that I cannot say it didnt cause issues just based on how my corals looked.

The fact is, I used Vibrant and my corals looked dry, pale, and starved with color loss leading up to my crash and I have every right to review this product and share my experience.

 

[mindme]

It kills algae. Work is a different animal. Work encompasses end result and how something comes about. It's like having a hang nail and getting amputated. Yes, the amputation fixed the hang nail but I wouldn't say that 'worked'.

Yes I only used it in very specific cases previously and would generally not recommend it because you just get left with high nutrients that will keep building up due to no algae being there to absorb them.

It's kind of funny that some people are calling me an "apologist" when if you searched my post history you'd find I generally didn't recommend it. All because I dared to question the lynch mob.

 

[mindme]

That is correct. I can't say that Vibrant killed my corals but I also can't say it didn't either. I posted in my thread during that time that a lot of my corals lost their color and seemed pale, etc. This was before I lost them. Whether it was Vibrant or not, l I know what happened. Something disrupted the biome and starved out the corals. I was there. I witnessed it and knew what was going on.

I have used Chemiclean and Fluconazole many of times with multiple tanks in the past with zero losses. However, I used Vibrant once and lost a couple frags and a red dragon colony. A year later I dosed Vibrant and my corals were not looking good again.

Again, I will say that yes, I cannot say Vibrant is the only reason why my corals died. But just like that I cannot say it didnt cause issues just based on how my corals looked.

The fact is, I used Vibrant and my corals looked dry, pale, and starved with color loss leading up to my crash and I have every right to review this product and share my experience.

What were the conditions of the tank that caused you to use vibrant to start with? And would the addition of more nutrients only increase those conditions?

Because that is why I quit using it outside few exceptions. Kills the algae, doesn't really solve the nutrient issue.

 

[Sean Clark]

 

[jcolliii]

You know you could have just showed me the information when I asked for it like the other person did. And I still don't see where your statement that you couldn't know how to properly dose without hte EPA regulations. And you said that while knowing it was exactly the same dose as Algaefix. AKA, obviously the dosage is correct and within regulations.

And I was reading directly off the bottle on the 3.5%. Once again, someone else was kind enough to point out it said something different on the website. Would you like me show you the bottle?

Okay, if you're just going to be obstreperous and lazy, there is no point on further engagement. but a demonstrable incomplete grasp on the facts in this conversation at least demonstrates that you should probably not be chiming in on this thread without further educating yourself.