Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Hey everyone, just to reiterate what has already been said, please avoid personal attacks, insults, and general rudeness in your responses. There are a lot of reports coming in from this thread that do not reflect the atmosphere and family-friendly culture we value here at Reef2Reef. Moving forward, we will remove people from this thread who do not abide by our terms of service.

 

[MnFish1]

What the heck. You're right about that having nothing to do with testing. I think we need to setup a fund to do independent testing here on products that claim to be all natural. I have now lost faith in any company that claims their stuff is all natural or herbal, etc. One bad apple can spoil the bunch unfortunately. I would chip in for a fund like this.

I think this is longstanding commentary in the reefing community

 

[Sean Clark]

a new BRS video quick and clear statement at 2:33 about not using algicide in your reef tank.

 

[mojo8427]

This is where not responding and moving on comes to mind. Make a clarification and move on.

I was never criticized for asking proper and logical questions. While I do not doubt @taricha or @Randy Holmes-Farley or @jda, as I have to come to know them well over the years, I still asked questions and asked for proof, how to interpet "the proof", etc.

It is all in how you do it. Words do not covey well alone in a forum. It also requires that you have to read through some muddle to get all of the data on something in a forum. It is a forum, everyone has a right to post, so things get sideways some times.

As to the lynch mob, this is nothing lol. Try out Reddit, for instance. Yes things got deleted, as they should have been. They were useless to the discussion, they attacked other and needed to go.

End of day, one has to put in work to truly understand things with things. You have to read all you can, ignore anything not relevant, use google-fu to know what the heck and NMR is and how it works, dig thorugh papers on items or chemical to get an understanding on them. This is how one truly learns what the heck is being present and how one should be able to form a decent understanding of the discussion.

In short, I am in no way a scientific person. I am a retired Recon Marine with a master degree in Electrical Engineering. Everything in all of the threads I had no idea about until I ask about them in the correct manner and did my own research on the test, things being discussed, etc. Yet somehow I managed to figure out what was what. It just took some work from my end to understand it. If one does not want to read all the details or ask questions with the correct wording, they should stay out of the discussion.

Small world, SARC from OKI until 2011, you?

 

[jeffww]

@UWC are you going to come out of hiding? It has been nearly a month since you said materials were sent to testing.

 

[Fapman]

It does not appear to be what UWC claims. Data clearly suggest it is an algaecide identical to Algaefix (see thread below)

IMO, this as a very serious breach of trust from a company that has insisted it is not an algaecide. It is also a clear breach of the Reef2Reef terms of service (about making misleading statements).

UWC refuses to respond to these allegations despite having been asked to do so.

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

The purpose of this post is to look closely at Vibrant to compare its properties to a known algaecide, Algaefix by API. This is intended to shed light on the active ingredients in Vibrant, explain its mechanism of action, and give people insight into its use and what to expect. It is not a...

www.reef2reef.com

getting a refund immediately from Amazon..

 

[blaxsun]

Several weeks since I stopped using Vibrant and all my corals are healthier, looking way more vibrant and I've stopped seeing random die-offs...

 

[blaxsun]

a new BRS video quick and clear statement at 2:33 about not using algicide in your reef tank.

Meanwhile at UWC... < crickets > Like seriously, how long does it take a legal team to go through the posts in a handful of threads?

 

[GrimReefer51]

Hi - I was totally being facetious. The point was that over the last couple weeks multiple new posters had been posting in favor of vibrant and the implication was that THEY were shills for Vibrant. What I said was 'tongue in cheek'. I no way did I mean to really say you were anything but honorable. I apologize

No need to apologize friend, I completely understand the premise in which you wrote your message. Thank you for taking the time to adress it and clarify it.

I realize tensions are high, as is normal under the nature of the situation. Controversy will tend to reign over such sensitive topics, its only natural. As mentioned before, we all posses the right of free will. We must never loose sight of this perspective, for each any every one of us carries with them a different experience. Not only in our daily lives, but in everything we do as intelligent beings.

It is only fair to assume some will defend their point as one would defend their life. This natural course of action is something embedded into every human being and takes years of self reflection to master.

We tend to take different viewpoints as personal attacks, rather then what they truly are. Different experiences. They are the Ying and Yang that complete a whole, for with out controversy, we would live inside a box.

Remember, wisdom is given to no Man until he seeks it. Controversy is but a by product. Nothing more.

Sincerely,

The GrimReefer

 

[klp]

I wonder if Vibrant, AlgaeFix etc. would be good to add to a tank for a few weeks into a new build to kill off anything like Bryopsis etc. before it started. Then do a water change and start from scratch hopefully free of anything unwanted in the algae line. Everything you added afterwards would have to be treated in a separate holding tank before adding them to the display tank. I am thinking there may be a proactive use for this product to nip anything in the bud before it starts. Any thoughts on this?

 

[klp]

Randy?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I wonder if Vibrant, AlgaeFix etc. would be good to add to a tank for a few weeks into a new build to kill off anything like Bryopsis etc. before it started. Then do a water change and start from scratch hopefully free of anything unwanted in the algae line. Everything you added afterwards would have to be treated in a separate holding tank before adding them to the display tank. I am thinking there may be a proactive use for this product to nip anything in the bud before it starts. Any thoughts on this?

I don't know. It seems now that people are suggesting that using any pesticide is bad. I guess dipping your corals in Bayer is taboo now also.

 

[GrizFyrFyter]

I don't know. It seems now that people are suggesting that using any pesticide is bad. I guess dipping your corals in Bayer is taboo now also.

Algaecide that can kill the algae inside the tissue of corals and using Bayer to kill invertebrates aren't anywhere near the same thing. No one is suggesting treating an entire tank with Bayer.

 

[MnFish1]

Algaecide that can kill the algae inside the tissue of corals and using Bayer to kill invertebrates aren't anywhere near the same thing. No one is suggesting treating an entire tank with Bayer.

But. Many people say that the polymer contained in algaefix cannot/will not get inside coral? I would never use Bayer personally either

 

[Little c big D]

So fun fact. I've had a bubble algae outbreak. I've been busy and lost control so I've looked into options through a 2019 post here. Alot of recommendations to use vibrant there. As well as some calling it an algaecide. I find it interesting because it would seem alot like many understand what it is....I am not up in arms for or against it, I have no experience with it but it is interesting to see old posts discussing it

 

[jeffww]

Well if you want to save 20bucks and support companies with better transparency then algaefix would be better than vibrant.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy?

Maybe. I'm not sure of the long term implications of using an algaecide, even on an empty tank.

 

[Dan_P]

I wonder if Vibrant, AlgaeFix etc. would be good to add to a tank for a few weeks into a new build to kill off anything like Bryopsis etc. before it started. Then do a water change and start from scratch hopefully free of anything unwanted in the algae line. Everything you added afterwards would have to be treated in a separate holding tank before adding them to the display tank. I am thinking there may be a proactive use for this product to nip anything in the bud before it starts. Any thoughts on this?

I like this idea. Here are a couple thoughts.

Pesky algae is potentially introduced into the aquarium every time you add something. The system is initially pest free and sterile except for nitrifying bacteria if it is started with dry rock and sand. If the aquarium is started with live rock, then it is potentially infected with nuisance algae and the pre-treatment could work.

The other thought I had was the persistence of poly-quats, being bound to surfaces and organic matter they won’t removed be removed by a water change. The general consensus is once they are bound that is that. I haven’t seen much science on the subject and can’t say whether they are locked in place and totally inert or there is a permanent low level concentration in the water as the poly-quat exchanges between different materials as the materials are degraded and digested. The steady-state concentration in the water might be too small to worry about. But I am interested in it.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I like this idea. Here are a couple thoughts.

Pesky algae is potentially introduced into the aquarium every time you add something. The system is initially pest free and sterile except for nitrifying bacteria if it is started with dry rock and sand. If the aquarium is started with live rock, then it is potentially infected with nuisance algae and the pre-treatment could work.

The other thought I had was the persistence of poly-quats, being bound to surfaces and organic matter they won’t removed be removed by a water change. The general consensus is once they are bound that is that. I haven’t seen much science on the subject and can’t say whether they are locked in place and totally inert or there is a permanent low level concentration in the water as the poly-quat exchanges between different materials as the materials are degraded and digested. The steady-state concentration in the water might be too small to worry about. But I am interested in it.

I think @Randy Holmes-Farley addressed this, but I'm not sure of the answer. I believe he said that there is not evidence that the poly-quats would remain in the tank long term. Randy, can you address this again please?

 

[MnFish1]

I like this idea. Here are a couple thoughts.

Pesky algae is potentially introduced into the aquarium every time you add something. The system is initially pest free and sterile except for nitrifying bacteria if it is started with dry rock and sand. If the aquarium is started with live rock, then it is potentially infected with nuisance algae and the pre-treatment could work.

The other thought I had was the persistence of poly-quats, being bound to surfaces and organic matter they won’t removed be removed by a water change. The general consensus is once they are bound that is that. I haven’t seen much science on the subject and can’t say whether they are locked in place and totally inert or there is a permanent low level concentration in the water as the poly-quat exchanges between different materials as the materials are degraded and digested. The steady-state concentration in the water might be too small to worry about. But I am interested in it.

The bottom line is that this chemical is generally safe. An incorrect label is another issue. We use the chemical 2x/year in our pool.

That said - if it accumulated, there would be increased toxicity as time went on - right? I.e. Those that used polyquats over and over for months at a time.

However - you're right its interesting. My motto (for a couple of years - having nothing to do with vibrant) is - avoid additives, avoid chemicals. If present at low concentrations - they shoudl be easy to measure - might be an interesting study.

In my FW aquarium - Vibrant took care of all of the algae. It has not recurred. Plants were not affected. I do 90 percent water changes every 1-2 weeks. So - your comments that It could be accumulating on 'things' is intriguing.