Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[CrunchyBananas]

It’s not that we are ok with it, it’s what the heck are you gonna do about it at this point?

ok stop buying it, cool. Then what?

a class action was mentioned, for what, a few dollars?

After almost 50 pages I just keep seeing the same things, “BUT BUT BUT, I WAS LIED TO”

Establishing that it is unacceptable and making UWC an example in the industry.

Accepting and saying it is okay or can be forgotten in any sense just perpetuates that anyone can lie, make a quick buck, and disappear in this small industry because people like you have the attitude "Ah man, ya got me, at least it worked for me."

That's why stuff like this keeps happening in the industry. It's laughable to excuse their actions, and they must be held accountable to the fullest extent possible to improve product standards and the overall aquarium hobby.

 

[DaneGer21]

Establishing that it is unacceptable and making UWC an example in the industry.

Accepting and saying it is okay or can be forgotten in any sense just perpetuates that anyone can lie, make a quick buck, and disappear in this small industry because people like you have the attitude "Ah man, ya got me, at least it worked for me."

That's why stuff like this keeps happening in the industry. It's laughable to excuse their actions, and they must be held accountable to the fullest extent possible to improve product standards and the overall aquarium hobby.

I agree fully.

But answer one thing, what exactly are you doing about this issue?

 

[polyppal]

It seems pretty obvious at this point that they do not have an explanation to refute the evidence presented countless threads/posts ago, so they are just laying low until it blows over (maybe. someday…)

I’ve never used vibrant (never will), but despite the energy and time some have devoted to the Vibrant issue, they still have a great rating on Amazon with hundreds of reviews and thousands of sales, and apparently many happy/satisfied users who endorse this product… don’t think it’s going to just disappear.

Someone mentioned ‘I’d never buy a product where the company lied to me’… if that’s the case, you wouldn’t buy much of anything anymore. A huge portion of companies/corporations overpromise their products or flat out lie about results, and will gladly take advantage of the consumer for profit. Now at least you know where UWC stand and can make the decision to support/endorse their products or not in the future - but to assume that nearly any corporations core values revolve around transparency, fairness and truth with the consumer is laughable.

I don’t quite understand the intensity and longevity of the consumer rage here, there’s a million snake oil disease cures in this hobby, but when they fail and the fish dies, we just say ‘that stuff is crap’ and don’t buy it/recommend it anymore. I suppose one couId attempt to sue them if they experienced losses, but the evidence of people who’ve experienced loss at the hands of vibrant is circumstantial at best, and seems very unlikely to get anywhere in court.

 

[DaneGer21]

Establishing that it is unacceptable and making UWC an example in the industry.

Accepting and saying it is okay or can be forgotten in any sense just perpetuates that anyone can lie, make a quick buck, and disappear in this small industry because people like you have the attitude "Ah man, ya got me, at least it worked for me."

That's why stuff like this keeps happening in the industry. It's laughable to excuse their actions, and they must be held accountable to the fullest extent possible to improve product standards and the overall aquarium hobby.

I agree fully.

But answer one thing, what exactly are you doing about this issue?

Because I keep seeing this all over the world. People change their Facebook pictures, to “Stand with so-in-so”, but don’t actually do anything to help. We say a few things, post a few things, get peoples reactions to things, BUT, we don’t actually do anything!

 

[blaxsun]

There are companies and corporations who are reputable. You need look no further than Tropic Marin as a recent example for evidence of this. While I'm not naive enough to think that every corporation may not have my best interest at heart, I'm also not jaded enough to think that making a buck is the sole motivating factor for every single one of them.

Just because they may have a good rating on Amazon doesn't mean much if companies like BRS stop carrying it and they become pariahs in the reefing community.

 

[CrunchyBananas]

Hope “they” don’t see the posts on this site then! There would be A LOT of people going to jail!

I agree fully.

But answer one thing, what exactly are you doing about this issue?

Look, I am not a chemist or a lawyer, I'm just a marine biologist. I don't have the equipment or chemistry knowledge to perform the tests in these threads, but I can recognize and grasp quality scientific standards at least. The least I can do is spread the knowledge presented in this thread, and call out all the trolls who have the mindset that this is acceptable.

I'm at least avoiding your attitude of "ho hum, what else can you do, its how it goes." At the very least, we need to squash that attitude and hold onto it's unacceptable. If it means class action lawsuit or EPA accountability, so be it.
You don't care about your $15, but, if it forces them to pay that out 10,000 times, it is something at least.

There should be accountability, or it will just keep happening. Make them an example, establish the legitimacy of this industry, otherwise it continues the mindset that we're fine with being lied to and its the easiest way into the industrys' collective wallet.

Things are just getting petty and pedantic at this point, you're obviously fine with letting them off, but this industry is my livelihood, and I am proud of it. I'm just embodying the issue with this thread and feeding the trolls. I've said my piece and stance.

 

[Cell]

I agree fully.

But answer one thing, what exactly are you doing about this issue?

If you are not concerned or believe it's water under the bridge that is completely fine, but what are you trying to accomplish in this thread then?

 

[Lyss]

The bottom line for me is, the way a company handles stuff like this speaks volumes. I’ve worked for a company in the past that used to berate and fight dissatisfied customers on social media and bring in the lawyers, and I’ve also worked for others that went out of their way to work with customers and resolve issues in ways that respected both themselves and the customer.

Customer experience is so important — the better customer service of the second company reinforced trust and confidence in them and instead of walking away w/an awful story of being berated and fought with, their customers walked away feeling positive and willing to come back again.

I often even tend to pay more attention to how a situation is handled when it comes up than the fact that a situation came up in the first place.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Not likely cancer, but a boatload of other issues. You might even be breaking the law using it if you send it down a drain after a water change.

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/001448-00042-20140919.pdf

"This pesticide is toxic to fish, aquatic organisms and clams. Do not discharge effluent containing this product into lakes, streams, ponds, estuaries, oceans or other waters unless in accordance with the requirements of a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit and the permitting authority has been notified in writing prior to discharge. Do not discharge effluent containing this product to sewer systems without previously notifying the local sewage treatment plant authority. For guidance contact your State Water Board or Regional Office of the EPA."

Interesting how the disease treatment group has no problem flushing harmful antibiotics and chemicals down the drain after prophylactic use of these products. Just saying this is just as big a problem yet no one wants to talk about it. Europe and Canada have already limited the use of these products for fish use in their respective jurisdictions. It may not be long until the same happens in the U.S.

 

[polyppal]

While I'm not naive enough to think that every corporation may not have my best interest at heart, I'm also not jaded enough to think that making a buck is the sole motivating factor for every single one of them.

Just because they may have a good rating on Amazon doesn't mean much if companies like BRS stop carrying it and they become pariahs in the reefing community.

Nobody said ‘every single corporation is evil’, no need to take what I said in some extreme direction to try to make a point. The point is you should be far from surprised when they do respond in their best interests.

Lol this has been ranted about for over a year, they are already pariahs of the experienced reefing community - anyone with the sense to do a search before using it will see that it is from the devil. The damage is done to their rep - lots of people hate it. But yeah, hundreds of reviews on Amazon say that a lot of people love it and will continue to support it, not caring what they use in their formula, because apparently it works for them. I can tell you they are selling far more product on Amazon then BRS/SaltwaterAquarium/etc combined.

They aren’t going to fold from all the hate they get on R2R, so besides the personal decision to stay away from/not recommend it, what’s accomplished by nonstop rabbling on and on and on saying the exact same thing over and over?

 

[Malcontent]

 

[mindme]

You might even be breaking the law using it if you send it down a drain after a water change.

Nobody is breaking laws by doing a water change.

Is it against the law to do water changes and pour it down the drain after algaefix? No. So why would you say this is?

I expected this kind of misinformation from some people, but not from you. Very disappointed.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Most of you are not as experienced in the pet industry. I have participated both as a manufacturer and distributor for more than 25 years. I was often sold products that did not meet the smell test and had to swallow the inventory or make an enemy out of the manufacturer. Sometimes the product was substantially changed and no longer worked as good as the previous product. I got stuck with that inventory as well. I made a choice to no longer buy or sell the product but my complaint to the manufacturer almost got me blacklisted in the aquarium industry.

How many of you really know everything about the products you use every day? Are you ready to take every company to task over your opinion of what is acceptable and what is not? We each make buying decisions based on our needs or expected value. I bet a good number of you consume alcohol, tobacco, fatty deep-fried foods, caffeine and sodas. If you want the truth, they are all very bad for your health period, and the science is clear, but we want what we want when we want it. So, we all are guilty of the drive through once and a while. Are you ready to sue the food industry for selling you what you demand? The same applies to this case. Someone solved a problem for their own consumption and had the bad sense to share it with other customers. Now, you want to sue or hold them accountable. Are you absolutely sure they made this product through repackaging or is there a possibility they might be victims of someone else selling them a solution to their problems? It is interesting how so many are of the opinion that serious foul play is being used for profit. I would lay you odds that UWC is making much more money by their aquarium service business than a few sales of potions on the internet. Why is it okay today to ascribe the darkest assumption to each company or person that may or may not have intended harm in the first place? What happened to just plain civility in the public discourse? Honestly, none of us were in the room when the product was launched, and we therefore have no actual knowledge about who knew what when.

I have been where they are right now trying to develop a product several years ago called Adapt 4.5. The company that supplied it to me misrepresented both the shelf life and the packaging requirements. The company was a top 10 company in the world at the time, yet they could not package the product to even meet a one-year shelf life. Even with a team of scientist, legal representation, no amount of communication would solve the problem. I just had to abandon the project and move on to things that would work. Guess what replaced it. A line of products that many of you use to attach corals to rock that is both cytotoxic and a chemical irritant, yet no one questions that process or product or for use in the aquarium. If you read the MSDS sheets for both Epoxy putties and cyanoacrylate adhesives, you would be shocked that you are using them in the aquarium, yet it is a widespread accepted practice. How about the use of pesticides for coral dips? How many of you do this? Stump remover anyone? Just saying it is not always a good idea to jump to conclusions about something many of you bend the rules on every day either with what you eat, drink, or put into your aquariums.

I am not a chemist, but I can read an MSDS and many of you should read one before using the products you deem necessary for success in the aquarium. We are living in a glass house along with our aquatic pets...best not to throw rocks!

 

[mindme]

a class action was mentioned, for what, a few dollars?

While I doubt anyone would get much money, you'd probably get more than a few dollars.

I was in a class action lawsuit against Safeway. Like 12+ years ago they were doing this grocery delivery program that was new. They claimed the prices would be the same as in store, and the delivery was free I tried it a few times. 2 or 3 times max.

Like 10 year later I get a letter about a class action lawsuit over it, as apparently they were marking up some of the items. They got my name as a customer, so I filled out the form for my part of the claim, took me like 3 minutes.

Now, if Safeway ripped me off it couldn't have been for more than a few dollars. I don't know what the amount was. I do know that so far I have received over $200. I wasn't even expecting more money, but about 2 weeks ago I opened my mail and found another check in my mailbox for a little over $100.

I looked and the check was for $3 in principle, and like $100 in interest. I was pretty surprised by it, but obviously I'll take it. I wish I knew how to get those interest rates on my savings account.

So if a class action lawsuit comes up, sign that claim. I sure will be.

 

[jcolliii]

One can make an informed decision given proper labeling. One cannot when lied to. That simple.

 

[shwareefer]

Baffling logic continues. Alcohol, tobacco, fatty deep-fried foods, caffeine,sodas, epoxy putties, cyanoacrylate and stump remover all say what they actually contain.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Baffling logic continues. Alcohol, tobacco, fatty deep-fried foods, caffeine,sodas, epoxy putties, cyanoacrylate and stump remover all say what they actually contain.

And yet you still put them in you tank or your body. You are right that is baffling logic.

Yeah, I bet an MSDS did not come with your Big Mac or the repackaged epoxy putty sold by various vendors.

 

[Malcontent]

And yet you still put them in you tank or your body. You are right that is baffling logic.

What can I say? My fish just love KFC (and Marshmallow Peeps).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Nobody is breaking laws by doing a water change.

Is it against the law to do water changes and pour it down the drain after algaefix? No. So why would you say this is?

I expected this kind of misinformation from some people, but not from you. Very disappointed.

Assuming you are a lawyer with expertise in this field, I bow to your superior knowledge. If you are not, then you are simply a layman expressing their opinion on a legal matter.

The EPA said in a written and published document that I posted that it was not be be discharged. I will leave the implications of doing so to folks who want to use it.

 

[mindme]

Assuming you are a lawyer with expertise in this field, I bow to your superior knowledge. If you are not, then you are simply a layman expressing their opinion on a legal matter.

The EPA said in a written and published document that I posted that it was not be be discharged. I will leave the implications of doing so to folks who want to use it.

First off, I find it funny that I need to be a lawyer with expertise in this field to dispute your claims, and yet you make your claim without being one yourself.

I'm someone who is applying common sense.

Is it illegal for you to use algaefix and then dump the water down the drain? If the answer is no, then what makes you think vibrant, which these tests suggest is the same as algaefix, is?

Why do you need to spread disinformation beyond the truth of what is going on? I don't get it. It looks to me like there is plenty to go on without claiming people could be breaking laws by doing water changes after using this stuff.