Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[Malcontent]

Assuming you are a lawyer with expertise in this field, I bow to your superior knowledge. If you are not, then you are simply a layman expressing their opinion on a legal matter.

The EPA said in a written and published document that I posted that it was not be be discharged. I will leave the implications of doing so to folks who want to use it.

The Clean Water Act has an exception for individual homes that are connected to a municipal system or septic system. However, municipalities have their own permitting systems and regulations so who knows?

I took my fish to a university veterinary hospital once and they had me take a bucket of MS-222-laden water back home. They told me the university wastewater treatment plant didn't want to deal with the stuff anymore and would charge $20/gal to dispose of it. However, it was safe (and free) to just dump on the lawn so I took it home and did exactly that.

 

[polyppal]

While I doubt anyone would get much money, you'd probably get more than a few dollars.

I was in a class action lawsuit against Safeway. Like 12+ years ago they were doing this grocery delivery program that was new. They claimed the prices would be the same as in store, and the delivery was free I tried it a few times. 2 or 3 times max.

Like 10 year later I get a letter about a class action lawsuit over it, as apparently they were marking up some of the items. They got my name as a customer, so I filled out the form for my part of the claim, took me like 3 minutes.

Now, if Safeway ripped me off it couldn't have been for more than a few dollars. I don't know what the amount was. I do know that so far I have received over $200. I wasn't even expecting more money, but about 2 weeks ago I opened my mail and found another check in my mailbox for a little over $100.

I looked and the check was for $3 in principle, and like $100 in interest. I was pretty surprised by it, but obviously I'll take it. I wish I knew how to get those interest rates on my savings account.

So if a class action lawsuit comes up, sign that claim. I sure will be.

$$$ Nice! $$$

Glad you have a life, and you didn't start thread after thread about how evil and morally bankrupt Safeway is, and try to shut them down and publicly ostracize them from the grocery community by making the same statements over and over and over again for 50+ pages

 

[Lyss]

Sigh — unwatching this thread again. How do you do the upside down smiley face emoji on here…

I will just say that the tu quoque arguments are frustrating. Also since when does everyone on this thread need to be lectured about wanting to invoke class action lawsuits? I personally feel the class action kind of talk is loaded rn, though I understand folks’ frustration. I’m more just interested in seeing how the company handles this before even coming to any conclusions about my own feelings, potential usage of the product, etc

 

[Karen00]

I don't know. It seems now that people are suggesting that using any pesticide is bad. I guess dipping your corals in Bayer is taboo now also.

Entirely different targets. Bayer is a pesticide to remove/kill unwanted hitchhikers. An algaecide like Vibrant, etc. can kill the corals themselves by killing their symbiont algae. You would never use an algaecide as a dip for those types of corals (well not without extreme caution if you were trying to remove algae that came in on the coral).

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

If anyone, all of a sudden, can’t see or respond to this thread because you got thread banned, don’t blame us. Thanks.

 

[Karen00]

Aside from labelling issues with Vibrant I find it interesting that people are comparing using Vibrant freshwater vs the Marine version (which appear to be identical as per the labels). Aren't we talking apples to oranges between these systems. I don't know of any freshwater plants that contain algae in their cells. Killing algae in freshwater systems is not necessarily going to nuke your plants. That's not the same with corals. They use algae symbionts to survive, not chlorophyll like freshwater plants.

 

[mindme]

If anyone, all of a sudden, can’t see or respond to this thread because you got thread banned, don’t blame us. Thanks.

If you do, I hope you take out the good test information and place it somewhere else(if it is in this thread, I got linked to it here, so not sure exactly where it was). That's good stuff and people should know.

 

[Duffer]

If anyone, all of a sudden, can’t see or respond to this thread because you got thread banned, don’t blame us. Thanks.

In my opinion I thank you for that. It’s a shame when I come to this thread as I was fascinated with the science and opinions, I would get anxiety reading some folks posts here just to cause problems..it’s one thing to have an opinion but it’s another just to fight

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

If you do, I hope you take out the good test information and place it somewhere else(if it is in this thread, I got linked to it here, so not sure exactly where it was). That's good stuff and people should know.

We won’t remove the thread just those that continue to disrespect one another and cause drama.

 

[MnFish1]

Not likely cancer, but a boatload of other issues. You might even be breaking the law using it if you send it down a drain after a water change.

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/001448-00042-20140919.pdf

"This pesticide is toxic to fish, aquatic organisms and clams. Do not discharge effluent containing this product into lakes, streams, ponds, estuaries, oceans or other waters unless in accordance with the requirements of a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit and the permitting authority has been notified in writing prior to discharge. Do not discharge effluent containing this product to sewer systems without previously notifying the local sewage treatment plant authority. For guidance contact your State Water Board or Regional Office of the EPA."

This to me is interesting. So - If I use the same chemical in my pool - in which my kids, myself, relatives, etc swim in And then backwash the pool - would you think that would break a federal law. This chemical is also used in outdoor ponds. including those whose intake water comes in - and there is an outflow.

@blaxsun - I do not believe that there is a cancer risk for this chemical - Its used in a number of products

 

[jcolliii]

From the draft EPA risk assessment document linked on p.1 of the other thread:

Polixetonium chloride has been classified as a “Group D” carcinogen (not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity: agents without adequate data either to support or refute human carcinogenicity).

IOW, they have not yet studied that aspect of it yet in detail.

 

[MnFish1]

Interesting how the disease treatment group has no problem flushing harmful antibiotics and chemicals down the drain after prophylactic use of these products. Just saying this is just as big a problem yet no one wants to talk about it. Europe and Canada have already limited the use of these products for fish use in their respective jurisdictions. It may not be long until the same happens in the U.S.

Since I'm one of those people recommending some of those things - I agree. However, every time a person takes a drug - its excreted in some form or another. So - if you measure medication levels in waters far down the Mississippi, for example, there are measurable amounts of various popular drugs in the water. There is no easy solution. AND - BTW - I'm not necessarily stating that people should use antibiotics with reckless abandon, I, for example, (if I were in my own bubble) - would not prophylactically treat algae with fluconazole, treat cyano with erythromycin, treat anemones with cipro, etc. Many of the recommended drugs - are combinations of multiple antibiotics - and indeed can cause resistant bacteria. I personally have no antibiotics, etc - in my house. Having said that Targeted antibiotics are a good thing. PS - I think you're right - the days of shotgunning antibiotics in the US are about to be done. It will require a veterinary prescription.

 

[MnFish1]

From the draft EPA risk assessment document linked on p.1 of the other thread:

Polixetonium chloride has been classified as a “Group D” carcinogen (not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity: agents without adequate data either to support or refute human carcinogenicity).

IOW, they have not yet studied that aspect of it yet in detail.

Well since its used in swimming pools universally in the US - I hope they figure it out soon

 

[mindme]

We won’t remove the thread just those that continue to disrespect one another and cause drama.

So selective censorship?

That's my queue to find another community. I didn't realize that kind of thing went on here.

 

[polyppal]

this pretty much sums up 50 pages and 1000 posts on the subject

 

[MnFish1]

So selective censorship?

That's my queue to find another community. I didn't realize that kind of thing went on here.

I think this is the best site to discuss things honestly. my opinion

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

First off, I find it funny that I need to be a lawyer with expertise in this field to dispute your claims, and yet you make your claim without being one yourself.

I'm someone who is applying common sense.

Is it illegal for you to use algaefix and then dump the water down the drain? If the answer is no, then what makes you think vibrant, which these tests suggest is the same as algaefix, is?

Why do you need to spread disinformation beyond the truth of what is going on? I don't get it. It looks to me like there is plenty to go on without claiming people could be breaking laws by doing water changes after using this stuff.

If you read what I wrote, I said “might be”. That statement cannot be incorrect.

sadly, you are the one misinforming people. There are lots and lots of products that are sold to consumers that cannot be poured down the drain. Maybe read up before saying that because it is in Algaefix, it must be ok.

But by all means use that defense at your trial. lol

 

[Peace River]

So selective censorship?

That's my queue to find another community. I didn't realize that kind of thing went on here.

There have been many friendly nudges, encouragements, warnings, and even pointed warnings throughout this thread. We value the conversation about this topic and agree that it is important, however when someone choose to not follow the terms of service then they self-select. If you have problems with this decision or just feel the need to vent then please PM me directly. We encourage everyone to be part of the community.

 

[polyppal]

If anyone, all of a sudden, can’t see or respond to this thread because you got thread banned, don’t blame us. Thanks.

 

[Karen00]

Seinfeld, nonfat yougurt episode. lol

Was it yoghurt or lattes? Either way.. spot on! That was one of the funniest episodes ever!