Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[GARRIGA]

My comment - the thread could have been closed after the warning. Whether right or wrong - its my opinion. Almost every issue here has been discussed over and over and over and over and over.

Only way to keep it in circulation is through repeating at nausea what has been regurgitated countless times before.

 

[MnFish1]

What is as stupid as anything that they have said is that they approached the EPA for supposedly vinegar, vitamin C, bacteria and RODI water... none of which are EPA controlled substances. ...so they were dumb to contact the EPA, knew that they should have, or they are lying again about something. There is no questions that Busan 77 is an EPA controlled substance and it must be labeled.

Discussed over and over and over and over and over - and now again. You seem to have an agenda? Call the EPA? - BTW - I'm not trying to be snarky - Call the EPA?

 

[MnFish1]

Only way to keep it in circulation is through repeating at nausea what has been regurgitated countless times before.

Great - then everyone should keep stating that Chemiclean contains xxxx xxxxx even though they denied that it contained xxxx. Right? Or any number of other products - it seems odd (to me).

 

[Lyss]

My comment - the thread could have been closed after the warning. Whether right or wrong - its my opinion. Almost every issue here has been discussed over and over and over and over and over.

I never knew there were other threads about this stuff. The one I was linked to is new to me, and wow when I read some of it.

 

[jeffww]

Who to trust? A FELLOW hobbyist that's doesn't have an overt financial motivation who with the collaboration of other hobbyists and some spontaneity discover that a product is falsely labeled. Or a salesperson who has repeatedly changed their description of their own product from "dormant bacteria" to "bacterial culture without cells" to "a competitive algaecide" to an "algacidal extract from bacteria". Who continuously deflects the obvious evidence laid out before them and who has so far, in the THREE months that this has been going on has NEVER said there isn't BUSAN 77 in their product?

I know we should wait and see and let them have their chance to respond but....I think they could just say "no, there isn't this material in our bottles" and let us hobbyists deal with the repercussions. Instead. Silence.

 

[trevorhiller]

Isn't it crazy???



Explain where BRS (or EVERY OTHER VENDOR) didn't do "real research" before selling Vibrant?

Do we really expect these vendors to send off ICP-MS, NMR, LOL, ABQ, NYC tests (last few are made up for fun) on every single product they sell??

Does Walmart send off every type of milk they carry to be third party tested to make sure it's actually milk? Should we really expect that out of a few small hobby retailers? Why not go after SWA or Premium or Aqucave or *insert company name here* for not testing every single product they've ever sold?

Why not hold Amazon accountable seeming that have likely sold more Vibrant than anyone else? I mean everyone wants to support Amazon (who has absolutely no interest in our hobby) when they can beat BRS, SWA, PA, and others by a few bucks. Why aren't they in here responding? Talk about playing fast and loose.

To my knowledge, BRS was the last (or close to last) major retailer to bring in Vibrant. They talked about being hesitant and not just trusting it was magic in a bottle. They trusted the manufacturer just like we all do every single day. Then they even investigated it more than anyone else had up to that point. We can all Monday morning quarterback this and say "they should have done this or should have done that" but no one was calling for that level of testing. Silver lining is we, as hobbyists, can ask for this going forward. Then vote with our dollars by supporting those that support us.

I have no idea what an NMR test cost but BRS has shown they will pay for these type of tests. Manufacturers would be very hesitant to ever cheat the system again if they knew we demanded this level of self regulation.

Sorry for the novel and thanks to those who made it this far.

I wouldn’t personally blame BRS. I agree, it’s unreasonable to ask them to validate every product they sell (even though they did do a validation in this case —just the wrong one).

I just printed out my RMA shipping label to mail back my unused bottle of Vibrant I bought from them. Completely hassle free. I’m honestly hoping that UWC has to eat the cost of it and not BRS. They were completely understanding and didn’t question it, just sent me a label like their return policy guarantees.

This whole thing screams class action lawsuit to me. I’m sure it’s a matter of time until some lawyer/reefer takes it on. Hopefully UWC, for their sake, is consulting with counsel.

 

[jda]

Why are you posting if you don't like the over and over and over again nature? Either stop complaining about it, stop posting or just embrace the cycle and go with it.

Now that you mention it, reef2reef does not need to exist since most of what is on here is covered at WWM in nauseam by better posters and what was not covered can probably be handled by RC. The lounge, live sales and how to program an apex are all that is really needed since everything else has been said 1000 times.

I don't need to see videos about Goldflake angels in a reef tanks, either. I did this in the late 1990s. (I am just kidding... I love to see things that I have seen before).

 

[MnFish1]

Who to trust? A FELLOW hobbyist that's doesn't have an overt financial motivation who with the collaboration of other hobbyists and some spontaneity discover that a product is falsely labeled. Or a salesperson who has repeatedly changed their description of their own product from "dormant bacteria" to "bacterial culture without cells" to "a competitive algaecide" to an "algacidal extract from bacteria". Who continuously deflects the obvious evidence laid out before them and who has so far, in the THREE months that this has been going on has NEVER said there isn't BUSAN 77 in their product?

I know we should wait and see and let them have their chance to respond but....I think they could just say "no, there isn't this material in our bottles" and let us hobbyists deal with the repercussions. Instead. Silence.

This was probably a rhetorical question - but - perhaps just 'don't buy the product'? Report it to whatever authority you want? What exactly is the goal?

The product - according to multiple people works. Worst case (that I have read) - is that there is a similar ingredient in another product that also works - but its alleged that this product is not labeled correctly? Ok - all good. Report it.

Is there a huge downside for the reefing hobby here?? I don't see it. Is this going to cause a sea-change in product labelling overall? Do some people who have apparently (I wasn't aware) have had axes to grind about this topic for several months (not talking about the researcher's) just have to keep nailing it home? IDK. I'm was just saying - beyond the warning - the rest of this seems patently ridiculous.

 

[MnFish1]

Why are you posting if you don't like the over and over and over again nature? Either stop complaining about it, stop posting or just embrace the cycle and go with it.

Now that you mention it, reef2reef does not need to exist since most of what is on here is covered at WWM in nauseam by better posters and what was not covered can probably be handled by RC. The lounge, live sales and how to program an apex are all that is really needed since everything else has been said 1000 times.

I don't need to see videos about Goldflake angels in a reef tanks, either. I did this in the late 1990s. (I am just kidding... I love to see things that I have seen before).

Wasn't the key point in this thread the 'warning'? Wasn't it posted as a sticky? (I thought it was - or was going to be). To answer your question - every 10 seconds comes a post - not related to reefing - but related to someones RMA of vibrant, Someone's long-standing battle with UWC, Someone's complaint about BRS - or praise of BRS some legal theory about vibrant.

According to my reading - the 'cycle' I'm supposed to embrace has been going on for several months lol. If you want to report their alleged mislabeling to the EPA, the FTC, some other place - great - do it. I''ve already posted my experience - and non-love of the product itself.

The video has been on my build thread for years. If you dont want to have it repeated - ask R2R to take build-threads off a signature. I didn't change it - all the sudden the video started appearing

 

[blaxsun]

My $0.02. I've used Vibrant for over a year. Presumably without incident. I have lost corals and livestock during this time period without explanation, but this isn't to say I suspected or attributed it to Vibrant (and it may very well have been unrelated, or at the very least - not the prime mitigating factor). Looking back, with the new information and experiences of others now available to me - I honestly have to wonder.

I returned a new unopened bottle of Vibrant ironically purchased the day before this all kind of blew up, and threw out the small portion I had remaining. Based on the independent research that's been done, cautionary advisories from experts much more knowledgeable than myself and the way that UWC has responded (or lack thereof) to this - I just don't have any confidence in this company. I'm not even sure anything short of external testing would restore my trust.

 

[jda]

Wasn't the key point in this thread the 'warning'? Wasn't it posted as a sticky? (I thought it was - or was going to be). To answer your question - every 10 seconds comes a post - not related to reefing - but related to someones RMA of vibrant, Someone's long-standing battle with UWC, Someone's complaint about BRS - or praise of BRS some legal theory about vibrant.

According to my reading - the 'cycle' I'm supposed to embrace has been going on for several months lol. If you want to report their alleged mislabeling to the EPA, the FTC, some other place - great - do it. I''ve already posted my experience - and non-love of the product itself.

The video has been on my build thread for years. If you dont want to have it repeated - ask BRS to take build-threads off a signature. I didn't change it - all the sudden the video started appearing

I have heard this over and over and over and over and over and over and probably one more time over again. I will probably see it again soon. What is the point to just keep repeating it?

I don't mind the video... just illustrating that new eyes see stuff all of the time and that is the nature of being at a place like this.

 

[MnFish1]

I have heard this over and over and over and over and over and over and probably one more time over again. I will probably see it again soon. What is the point to just keep repeating it?

This is a common thing here - someone asks a question then complains when someone answers it. so - I'll answer your question - I answered it before I'll answer it again - because you asked it.

You apparently didn't get my point. which was - the thread could have been closed after the warning. Which was clear - crystal clear.

 

[jeffww]

This was probably a rhetorical question - but - perhaps just 'don't buy the product'? Report it to whatever authority you want? What exactly is the goal?

The product - according to multiple people works. Worst case (that I have read) - is that there is a similar ingredient in another product that also works - but its alleged that this product is not labeled correctly? Ok - all good. Report it.

Is there a huge downside for the reefing hobby here?? I don't see it. Is this going to cause a sea-change in product labelling overall? Do some people who have apparently (I wasn't aware) have had axes to grind about this topic for several months (not talking about the researcher's) just have to keep nailing it home? IDK. I'm was just saying - beyond the warning - the rest of this seems patently ridiculous.

People don't like getting scammed. People like being kind and letting others know that something is wrong, especially if it might mean saving the lives of creatures we all enjoy and also possibly a significant amount of money. I personally just don't want to just leave it and let people continue to spread the false narrative that the data are somehow flawed. If so, WHY? I don't want people to hijack this thread to attack the vendors either. Most importantly, we are all affected by deceit from the people we trust. It's not just a matter of not buying the product. It's a matter of preventing malcontents from muddying the conversation and sowing unnecessary doubt.

 

[MnFish1]

People don't like getting scammed. People like being kind and letting others know that something is wrong, especially if it might mean saving the lives of creatures we all enjoy and also possibly a significant amount of money. I personally just don't want to just leave it and let people continue to spread the false narrative that the data are somehow flawed. If so, WHY? I don't want people to hijack this thread to attack the vendors either. Most importantly, we are all affected by deceit from the people we trust. It's not just a matter of not buying the product. It's a matter of preventing malcontents from muddying the conversation and sowing unnecessary doubt.

Who said the data were flawed? I said - the leading scientist (or one of them) on this site posted a warning to the entire site - which frankly stands on its own. The largest (or one of them) online retailer removed the product from their site and posted a video. Who is hijacking anything?

 

[jda]

Everybody also wants to get their questions in, have their voices heard and sometimes just complain or vent a bit. Some people want answers before there are any to give.

Nobody would deny you your chance to ask a question that you probably did not see or just to share an experience if you just happened to stop by today. We discussed a lot in the few days that you were gone and nobody bashed you when you repeated things when you jumped back in.

I have no agenda other than the hobby and humanity. I always feel that liars and people with no integrity need to be quashed as hard as possible so that the next person does not feel like this is a good idea. Half measures, excuses and explaining away the situation with some garbage like "ends justifies the means" or "it works, so who cares" just breeds more of this. Integrity matters. Honesty matters. I am also great with redemption and more chances to do well, but this cannot start with both honesty and integrity first. I probably said all of this before... so maybe just three or four overs and overs...

We get that you think that the warning stands alone. Everybody gets that you think this. There is more happening here and if you don't want to be a part of it or think that it is not smart, then don't be a part of it. I will support anybody that has questions or just wants support, even if it all has been covered before, because I believe that it is the right thing to do for the hobby and also the right thing to do to make sure that this kind of dishonesty does not happen again.

 

[jeffww]

Who said the data were flawed? I said - the leading scientist (or one of them) on this site posted a warning to the entire site - which frankly stands on its own. The largest (or one of them) online retailer removed the product from their site and posted a video. Who is hijacking anything?

I will not go through the whole thread to find examples but my opinion is that people who are claiming things such as "it couldn't be busan 77 because I see my nutrients drop" or proclaiming that results can't be trusted until they go through some mystical peer review process and diverting the discussion at hand. This is a matter of opinion and I understand you may not agree that it's worth your energy replying to things like this and countering conjecture with fact. But if you really want to exhort others to give the topic a rest, I think you might want to step back from the computer as well. I know I will. I agree with you , the narrative is currently under control in this thread, for now. But I won't hesitate to rehash "done" discussions in the future if it means making sure the key parties are well informed.

 

[Lyss]

Just wanted to say that if folks are tired of the conversation or no longer want to participate, there’s a simple way to make it happen

 

[JCOLE]

My comment - the thread could have been closed after the warning. Whether right or wrong - its my opinion. Almost every issue here has been discussed over and over and over and over and over.

Why? It's an open forum and everyone has the right to post and ask questions, comment, etc. Just like you have the right to ignore this thread and let it all go away for you.

Curious. What does the MN stand for in your username?

 

[MnFish1]

Everybody also wants to get their questions in, have their voices heard and sometimes just complain or vent a bit. Some people want answers before there are any to give.

Nobody would deny you your chance to ask a question that you probably did not see or just to share an experience if you just happened to stop by today. We discussed a lot in the few days that you were gone and nobody bashed you when you repeated things when you jumped back in.

I have no agenda other than the hobby and humanity. I always feel that liars and people with no integrity need to be quashed as hard as possible so that the next person does not feel like this is a good idea. Half measures, excuses and explaining away the situation with some garbage like "ends justifies the means" or "it works, so who cares" just breeds more of this. Integrity matters. Honesty matters. I am also great with redemption and more chances to do well, but this cannot start with both honesty and integrity first. I probably said all of this before... so maybe just three or four overs and overs...

We get that you think that the warning stands alone. Everybody gets that you think this. There is more happening here and if you don't want to be a part of it or think that it is not smart, then don't be a part of it. I will support anybody that has questions or just wants support, even if it all has been covered before, because I believe that it is the right thing to do for the hobby and also the right thing to do to make sure that this kind of dishonesty does not happen again.

I know this is all about the gold flake video

 

[MnFish1]

Why? It's an open forum and everyone has the right to post and ask questions, comment, etc. Just like you have the right to ignore this thread and let it all go away for you.

Curious. What does the MN stand for in your username?

LOLOLOL. Manganese. Which is the crystal in me emoji. I'm assuming you were brewing another conspiracy theory?