We are our brothers keepers

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mnat

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After hearing about a thread when a vendor on here sold a no name sps frag as a RR avengers acro, it got me thinking which is a bad thing lol. If we can't trust vendors, who can we trust. Then I started thinking about this forum and what we do on here and the threads that are here and I came to an epiphany. All of the hype threads, Id threads and all the other picture threads actually serve a real purpose, they are an evolving fact checking database if pictures. We are here to watch out for each other and help rah other out because mostly we are not here to take advantage of fellow reefers. Sometimes healthy skepticism is necessary to self police each other. So I guess this is a long way of saying thank you to all the pic posters and people who comment on here talking about different morphs and sometimes calling bs when it needs to be said.

For reference the original sps thread was pulled by an overly protective mod but here is the feedback thread.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/seller-trader-feedback/153610-cautious-when-buying-shrimplet.html
 
After hearing about a thread when a vendor on here sold a no name sps frag as a RR avengers acro, it got me thinking which is a bad thing lol. If we can't trust vendors, who can we trust. Then I started thinking about this forum and what we do on here and the threads that are here and I came to an epiphany. All of the hype threads, Id threads and all the other picture threads actually serve a real purpose, they are an evolving fact checking database if pictures. We are here to watch out for each other and help rah other out because mostly we are not here to take advantage of fellow reefers. Sometimes healthy skepticism is necessary to self police each other. So I guess this is a long way of saying thank you to all the pic posters and people who comment on here talking about different morphs and sometimes calling bs when it needs to be said.

For reference the original sps thread was pulled by an overly protective mod but here is the feedback thread.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/seller-trader-feedback/153610-cautious-when-buying-shrimplet.html

Very good point and a great perspective! While most people take offense to the back and forth of what "is" or "isn't", really what is happening is the exchanging of knowledge from one's experience one way or the other, all while strengthening each other's knowledge base/awareness!

Great post for people to read and take a step back, to appreciate all that goes on here on R2R.

Thanks!
 
Could not agree more with the OP! This couldn't have been stated any better! There is too much of this practice of sellers passing off fake corals and trying to profit greatly from it.
 
Just for the record the thread wasn't pulled by an overly protective mod. The thread was accidentally deleted by a mod trying to remove a couple out of line posts. Most thread removals (spam being the exception) are discussed by staff before removal. The thread was reported to us and nothing appeared to be in need of moderating. One or two posts were out of line and instead of deleting the offending posts the entire thread was accidentally removed.
 
This is a great thread - but a reality of the scientific community we live in is stil learning. What i mean by this is as hobbyist we should be supporting more research in the field of marine reasearch. A picture of a coral is meaningless to a point** without proper DNA coding or atleast an electrophoresis to determine protein structures within the coral to try and get proper phylogenic classification, I love the picture databases, they help so much. But I think we need to also realize that they are only a bandage, a temporary way to maybe, sorta, kinda understand a little more about a coral, without supporting students and reasearch within the corals us as hobbiest will be stuck having threads saying " my blue tort isn't as blue as my friends, it must be a tenius. ", and this isn't going to help us evolve and learn more about the animals me love and care for. Sorry for rant, just im working on a research project with palythoa grandis and i had to get funding...can i tell you how difficult it is to get, i wrote to multiple academys of research and no one assited, but yet as hobbiest well drop 1000$ on the newest zoanthid lol, but not to understand more about them that could potentially help. So moral is...support the field of academic research!!
 
Just for the record the thread wasn't pulled by an overly protective mod. The thread was accidentally deleted by a mod trying to remove a couple out of line posts. Most thread removals (spam being the exception) are discussed by staff before removal. The thread was reported to us and nothing appeared to be in need of moderating. One or two posts were out of line and instead of deleting the offending posts the entire thread was accidentally removed.

My apologies then, I will edit it later.
 
All of the hype threads, Id threads and all the other picture threads actually serve a real purpose, they are an evolving fact checking database if pictures.

I absolutely agree with this! I have found that seeing pictures posted by multiple individuals in so-called hype threads are helpful for getting an idea of what a particular coral really looks like. Often those same threads will help with learning specific care requirements for said coral as well.

Very good point and a great perspective! While most people take offense to the back and forth of what "is" or "isn't", really what is happening is the exchanging of knowledge from one's experience one way or the other, all while strengthening each other's knowledge base/awareness!

Great post for people to read and take a step back, to appreciate all that goes on here on R2R.

Thanks!

Absolutely! It is great to be part of a community that helps each other out and exchanges knowledge in ways that we can all benefit from.
 
and greatly said that WHO CAN WE TRUST. thats why we reefers stick together, if one person does his homework. He who did there homework on the piece/pieces, can help us out just incase he/she heard anything suspect of that item. This is gonna be a great thread. Keep it up bro. !
 
I am going to play devils advocate here for a few sentences. It will probably annoy people but it is my opinion...

I do not agree with selling corals as a certain name when in reality it is not. This is deceptive and will ruin reputations in the hobby community. I am an honest person, sometimes to a fault, but it is just how I am and I cannot take anyone who is dishonest seriously.

With that said, I do not believe the hyping threads do ANY good for the hobby in general. Sure some pictures are posted with the new cool name that has been given to a coral, but who does this benefit? It does not benefit the individual hobbyist as it is only adding to the confusion of coral names to try remember. It doesn't help with the cataloging of the specific corals as people hardly EVER know the scientific name or even part of it. The only people who benefit from the hyping threads are the people selling that specific coral as they use them as a marketing tool to inflate the prices of said coral. Sure there is a new name posted on a coral that has probably been delivered to many different suppliers as remember, the ocean is huge and that was not the only piece of that coral out there... Why would we take the first person who posts a pic and name as a spokesperson for naming and releasing that said coral? Also how can we legitimately say that supplier xyz was the ONLY person to have brought in this coral and give them exclusive naming rights while not allowing the other vendors who received the same coral (from the ocean) and decided to frag it up?

Just an example... A Golden Retriever is a Golden Retriever right? Well not exactly... A Golden Retriever with papers is a Golden Retriever as it has been verified by a governing body that is in place to regulate the claims of breeders. A Golden Retriever pup from two registered Golden Retriever parents is a Golden Retriever ONLY if it comes with registration papers. If no papers exist, you have a dog that looks like a Golden Retriever. If a breeder hands you a paper that says they certify this is a purebred Golden Retriever, sure you have some reassurance. However if the papers are not official registration papers, you still just have a dog that looks like a Golden Retriever... If you breed your dog without papers you just have a dog pups... If I also have a dog without papers, I can say I have a Golden Retriever, but if anyone calls my bluff I will have to say it is just a dog as no official papers exist.

Without the official governing body to regulate the breeds/corals, all you have is a generalization of a name which can be commonly accepted, but not enforced. If a coral "looks" exactly like another coral, you will have the general community saying they have that coral. There is no enforcement against doing this, but people may call you out if something is amiss. They do the same with dog breeds if something doesn't look right. Then you will be required to pull out your papers and PROVE that what you are saying is true, or at least prove you have papers claiming what you say is true. If you have no papers to prove it, people will start to distrust you.

So as far as I am personally concerned, all the SPS corals out there are "no name SPS frags" as no one can show me papers that prove the original lineage of the coral and prove there are no other colonies imported from the same wild coral possibly sold under a different name or no name at all... Sure the name helps us generally describe a coral. If a vendor or private seller is trying to use a name on something that is significantly different, that is not cool. However if similar, it could have been from the same wild colony...

If it looks like a fish, moves like a fish and smells like a fish, it must be a Golden Retriever right?

Also just because I want to pick on my fellow mods... We are not angelic creatures who make no mistakes. We are human like the rest of the members. Mistakes happen and sometimes they are irreversible. I am the first to admit that I have played out the scene in Star Wars where Luke yells "NOOOOOOO!" more than once in my time as a Mod... But sometimes only time can restore balance to the Force and mistakes cannot be unwritten :(

Rant over...
 
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so Shrimplet was sold the fake coral? or the vendor supplied a fake coral? with it changing hands, its hard to tell who is telling the truth and who is lying, and no one is gonna want to look bad... sucks Cornel paid for a coral and it ended being a phony.
 
Also I am trying to bring the thread back from the bowels of the database! If I do it will be back minus some posts that do not reflect our TOS here at R2R. ;) Trust me when I say this was an honest mistake.
 
so Shrimplet was sold the fake coral? or the vendor supplied a fake coral? with it changing hands, its hard to tell who is telling the truth and who is lying, and no one is gonna want to look bad... sucks Cornel paid for a coral and it ended being a phony.

So shrimplet sold the fake coral*
 
Well said everyone. I think these threads also serve the purpose of showing these pieces in "real world" conditions. Pictures used to sell corals are usually taken on a specific photography "shelf" in the tank just under water. The end picture is usually the result of a lot of pictures where the best is chosen. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this as I like to see the best photo I can of pieces I buy. It's just nice to see "regular" photos for lack of a better word. It's usually easier to compare to what you're seeing in your tank.
 
That really sucks that he took you for a ride and gained all that extra money from you for a coral that wasn't the real deal. You have to be extremely careful when buying higher end pieces as it seems everyone is trying to make a quick buck these days. Bummer dude
 
The ocean is very big and people panic when something rare come around and drop big $$$$ on it and a few months down the line you see it everywhere. everything has 20 names and this hobby keeps growing every day. I don't blame vendors for changing the names of things so they can meke and extra $100 that's why they went into business to begin with to make $$$$$. With the internet it's so easy to research a coral I really don't know why people pay so much for coral when it's on one place for $200 and $40 somewhere else. Just research! ohhh and If rev wants to pay you with reef2reef money in my bank they told me it's fake!!!!!!
 
There is no "HE" sold a fake coral. We were not there through the dealings of the coral, where it came from originally, and who sold it to who as what. Its very easy to be fooled when dealing long distance. Ask a lot of questions and don't be afraid to get others opinions. It is very easy for these high end sellers to grab ahold of a reefer and take them for a ride because the seller believes they have the tenure to easily get away with it.
 
If I find that I want a particular named coral, I go to the vendor that originated the coral. A hard learned lesson.The RR Avengers coral is a Reef Raft signature original. It has also always been my favorite coral.
 
Shrimplet sold a frag of avengers to cornel with a lineage of sexy corals

Cornel had the coral checked out by reefraft and sexy corals and is told it is not the same coral

Sexy corals says he never sold shrimplet a frag of avengers and that is where the problem is
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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