What do we, as reefers, want?

[sexycorals]

I feel that the price of these expensive LE pieces is what drives me and make this hobby more interesting. I remember 10 years ago when i go so excited to finally get a stalk of pulsing xenias for $50. This hobby would be boring to me without me wantiong to go hunting for nice pieces ona weekly bases to find a treasure in the rough.

 

[Psychographic]

1. I think “honesty” and “being taken advantage of” can really encompass the “LE” label, the recycling of a name on imposter corals, and just general scamming. Amanda mentions the use of forums such as these to spread the word about these things. I think that’s a powerful tool. And while I agree that not everyone has no life like me with hours to kill on these forums a simple Google search of a coral name or phrase will quickly jump you to many of these threads. I also don’t buy it that all newbs will necessarily jump on something just because it is labeled as LE. We have to be savvy consumers here. A little research can go a long way. So what other solutions are there? Do we cry foul out in public when we see a wrong? I know plenty goes on behind the scenes (PM’s), but how does that help the general reefing public?

Here is one problem I think prevents people from calling others out, particularly vendors. The internet reefing community is much smaller than we think sometimes. How many times do you visit other forums and recognze a name?

Now lets say a vendor is using an established name and maybe putting their companies name or inititals in front of it, and this vendor also has some other nice corals on a regular basis. How many are willing to risk calling the vendor out and have them not want to deal with you ever again, or even spread the word, don't deal with "ReeferX", he's just going to badmouth you.

If you are a collector and frequently buy corals, will you risk calling them out, probably not.

 

[Psychographic]

I feel that the price of these expensive LE pieces is what drives me and make this hobby more interesting. I remember 10 years ago when i go so excited to finally get a stalk of pulsing xenias for $50. This hobby would be boring to me without me wantiong to go hunting for nice pieces ona weekly bases to find a treasure in the rough.

Hunting down an elusive piece and overpaying are two completely different things IMO.

 

[roscoe]

As stated earlier in the thread. The LE, rare , one of a kind, never to be seen again are all marketing terms! Just by doing a little research you will come to find that most is not what they claim. I see lots of things that has those prefix labels in one vendors site then find it at another with a different name. Mother nature don't just produce only 1 of anything! If someone has something mother nature has produced you can bet there are more of it somewhere.

 

[acronautical]

Wow Psychographic, very astute observations! Well said.

 

[mpoletti]

Hunting down an elusive piece and overpaying are two completely different things IMO.

Yep, but I guess when you are marketing your corals for sale threads, names/pricing is a must

"introducing xyz coral" When did the marketing go from a store piece to a personal piece...ie Atlantis mirabalis to (insert member name here) staghorn?

 

[acronautical]

Just one little comment on the prices some vendors throw out on the boards. When I read their price quotes, I can't help by hear Dr. Evil's voice saying, "One MILLION Dollars!" (-:

 

[Sea MunnKey]

No offence but Who in the Hell came out with this One Head/eye per xx amount of dollars for fragged corals??? It's absurd and ridiculous ... :misdoubt:

Paul

 

[mpoletti]

No offence but Who in the Hell came out with this One Head/eye per xx amount of dollars for fragged corals??? It's absurd and ridiculous ... :misdoubt:

Paul

:xd:

I love it. It was just a year or so ago when you would buy a frag and not an eye

 

[divecj5]

Here is a question to you. When you look at you tank, (honestly) what is the first think you think of? Is it about money spent or money to be made? Or is it a feeling of content and interest in the beauty if a living organism. Neither answer is wrong! It is just your way of looking at the hobby!

What I think is happening in this recent outrage of coral and prices. We as hobbyist have lost touch with the interest in keeping a biotope and have instead became infatuated in keeping up with the latest and greatest. Some individuals in this hobby have allowed themselves to be transformed into someone who buys corals to top the other guy and to show it of in your latest tank thread. I am not against having a nice collection of beautiful corals, just do it within the means of your budget and enjoyment. Sometimes I sit and watch my wife look at my tank and point out how amazing a single detail of a coral or a fish is, trust me this doesn’t happen that much, and it brings back a feeling of simple enjoyment of the hobby again.

Don’t get mad at the guy who can afford a million dollar house just be glad that you have a home! Reef with in your budget, or have the patience to wait till your turn to buy your dream piece!

Back to my enjoyment of the hobby, Ian

Honestly, I get home from work, and literally go through my entire tank, looking to see how everyhting is doing, growing, and behaving before I even take the groceries out of my car LOL. Every time I look at my fish and my corals, they make me smile, for the pure enjoyment of successfully keeping/growing them, and making them color up as much as they can. I never want that to change, for me personally, anyways.

Couldn't have said it any better and I echo both of your sentiments here. I think people just tend to forget that this is a HOBBY.

Hobby - An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.

If you get pleasure out of going out and finding the latest and greatest corals to add to your collection, regardless of price, then that is what makes this a hobby for you and more power to you. If you relish in having just two "run of the mill" clownfish and a couple of stalks of Xenia, then go for it. The key is to love what you have. I think a lot of the negativity lately stems from the "gotta keep up with the Jones' mentality."

I think it's very hard not to get caught up in all of the "latest and greatest" trends, especially when you're first starting out in this hobby. I've only been in this hobby for around 4 years and it never ceases to amaze me how trends come and go (remember when Nucs, PDs were $50/polyp). When I was first starting out, I was really really proud that I was finally keeping a saltwater tank, something that had been a dream of mine since I was waist high to a grasshopper. I got so much enjoyment out of learning from others, meeting reefers from all over the country, and just enjoying what I could afford.

There was a time last year where, due to a TON of different pests and circumstances, I almost called it quits. It wasn't until some local reefers and my wife stepped in and asked me why. They asked me why I enjoyed the hobby, why I would want to get out, and whether I would miss it.

In the end, I have found that I get a lot more enjoyment out of cherishing the pieces that I have, trading for some that catch my eye, and helping others out where possible. Would I buy more expensive coral and equipment if I had the funds, maybe. Would that make me enjoy the hobby even more, probably not.

For me, I make sure to sit down at least daily, if possible, just to stare at the tank for 10-15 minutes. It's amazing how much enjoyment you can find in just observing what you have, not thinking about "what I should add next," "what I wish would look better," etc. I get a lot of personal joy out of this hobby....I love having my own little slice of the reef in my own home that I can enjoy.

-Adam

 

[SDguy]

No offence but Who in the Hell came out with this One Head/eye per xx amount of dollars for fragged corals??? It's absurd and ridiculous ... :misdoubt:

Paul

I was under the impression that was to make sure you didn't get a no-eye frag (been there, done that) :beat_brick:

 

[Psychographic]

Not really. You can have two types of Lokani lets say. One likes high light and one bleaches out with higher lighing. Also, there are some chalices that like high lighting and some that do better in the shade. Knowing the history up front helps in caring for your livestock.

If you put a low light coral under high light, you are not keeping it under the same conditions.

The point everyone is making regarding established named corals is that given the same conditions, the coral should pretty much look the same.

Let's say I see a coral similar to a named coral that has linaeage and proven track record (which in general is the big debate it seems). This unnamed coral is kept under "X" lighting, flow, params, etc. after your purchse you match "X" conditions, would'nt it pretty much keep the shape, growth pattern and color?

To make this a little clearer, named coral "A", likes a ton of light and flow, if you match that in your tank, it should look the same for you. Correct?

Coral "B", is not from the same lineage, but appears to be the same coral to the naked eye. Coral "B" likes low light, and medium flow. Again you match these parameters in your tank. Would'nt this coral keep the same traits as long as the conditions match the ones it was previously kept in before your purchase?

If you try to keep coral "A" under conditions for coral "B" I understand it morphing, but if you are matching conditions to the actual coral you are buying, why would the unnamed not hold it's color and growth pattern?

This is part of why I don't get the proven track record of corals with names as opposed to unamed.

 

[mpoletti]

Let me see if this helps

Lets say coral A is a piece that has been in captivity for some time and has a proven track recond. We know it requires high light and high flow.

Then coral b comes in as a wild piece, but is sold as coral A as its easy to sell a coral with a name for a certain price. When coral B is placed in the same place as coral A, it does not thrive, in fact it browns outs or bleaches.

Corals that have been captivity for some time also adjust to the tanks ups and downs a lot more than fresh pieces from the ocean. They are usually a hardier piece. I would much rather pay for a piece that is 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation as IME, they are hardier than a first geneartion ocean piece.

Corals are corals and names are names, I think what people do not care for is when coral B is sold as coral A. If it is coral B, then sell it as coral b and leave coral A out of it.

 

[Sea MunnKey]

I was under the impression that was to make sure you didn't get a no-eye frag (been there, done that) :beat_brick:

I would assume any "experienced" seller/"fragger" :xd: would be incline to realize that .... no? or maybe not ....

Paul

 

[Bio-nut]

I certainly agree with most of your sentiments, Ian. But, if I understood this portion of your statement, I would disagree. I think that looking at your system from the perspective of money spent, and especially money to be made, transforms a person from a true hobbiest to a merchant/vendor. I went through a brief phase, perhaps one out of my six years in the hobby, where I was actively seeking out LE=type pieces, and occasionally spending too much. I've finally found my roots again, leaving the tank alone and rarely purchasing any new additions. It's nice to simply ponder the tank with the family and relax again, like I did with my first 55 gallon mixed reef. There are a few corals I would like to add, but I am glad the "feeding-frenzy" drive has subsided. I was drawn to this hobby the first few years by the volumes of reading I immersed myself in; specifically, because the nexus of science and art in this hobby is so intriguing. I wish more hobbiests would similarly relax, and smell the mysis.

The point I was trying to make is that some people use this hobby as a living (Vendors), some veiw it a a hobby with growth of their corals as a way to cover the cost of operating and there are those who let everything grow up and out of the water and throw out frags like lawn clippings because they love the hobby for the beauty itself.
We are all hobbyist we are just have different directions that we go with it!

 

[SDguy]

If it is coral B, then sell it as coral b and leave coral A out of it.

That's a sig quote, for sure :bigsmile:

 

[roscoe]

IMHO you are no longer a hobbyist when you are out for profit. You now become a merchant/vendor. It is one thing people sell corals to sustain thier system or to upgrade thier equipment and another just for the soul purpose of making money. Don't get me wrong nothing wrong with extra moola but lets be honest don't say that you are in this for the passion of the hobby when people is chargeing x amount of money for something that was a hitch hiker.

 

[mpoletti]

IMHO you are no longer a hobbyist when you are out for profit. You now become a merchant/vendor. It is one thing people sell corals to sustain thier system or to upgrade thier equipment and another just for the soul purpose of making money.

Second :nerd:

 

[Bio-nut]

Peter for president !

Trust me I work with him, he has a big enough head don't make it any bigger!

 

[mpoletti]

That's a sig quote, for sure :bigsmile:

I'm glad something good has come of this :tongue: