Why do you do water changes?

[Ace25]

Key word there "Advertising phosphate free", it is an advertising gimmick most of the time because the reality is the products don't contain phosphates anyway, but if you put 2 bottles of something side by side, even the exact same bottle and one has a sticker added that says "phosphate free" most people will grab that one just because of the mentality behind phosphates.

The biggest source of phosphates going into an aquarium is from food, second would be from water changes. Since phosphates from food has been proven to not be an issue to worry about (unless you severely overfeed and don't have means to control it) I can't see how any other source can be as bad. Fresh RO/DI water with 0 TDS can contain phosphates, and when you mix a fresh batch of salt water it contains even more phosphates. As an example, ESV B-Ionic Salt contained .10 phosphates after mixing, much higher than the phosphate levels in my tank so if I did a water change with that salt I would actually add more phosphates to my tank than I am taking out.

 

[Scuba George]

I test my RO water and mixed water and it's always 0 and I rinse food twice and don't over feed. I spot feed my fish with my finger so none hits sand bed. Plus why hound me I said supplements and i proved it with an article I didn't even mention which and it's not my fault source didn't specify.


Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?

 

[mallorieGgator]

I do water changes to export nutrients. I also do them to keep my levels of calcium, magnesium, and alkalinity at reasonable levels since I don't dose.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ace25]

I have a hard time believing you are getting 0 phosphates out of your RO/DI water. I just did a test right now to verify and the picture below is my phosphate test on 0 TDS RO/DI water and I got .03 phosphates. I just looked back at my salt testing pictures and ESV B-Ionic salt was actually .12 phosphates.

I am not hounding you, just looking for good scientific information. You stated supplements contained phosphates and that was one I have never heard of causing phosphate problems in a tank, so I questioned you for further research on the topic. You did not prove anything. If you could provide research into exactly what supplements (not food) add phosphates to a tank that back your statements, that would be something that interests me for this topic and something I would look into more. If you can't provide any research that proves what your saying, then it is not something I am going to believe because in the 20 years I have been in the hobby I have heard countless things like that and 99% of the time it is "myth" or "old wives tale" type of information with no scientific basis behind it.

 

[Built347]

The majority of us know the scripted reasons why we do waterchanges. Whether it be 10% weekly or 25% monthly or whatever's your fancy.... export nutrients and import elements etc.. I do 10%. 50 gallons every Sunday for one simple reason... I like the results...

 

[REEFKEEPER10]

After I said that I remembered that it was purple-up that I read about having phosphate but can find that article now. Either way doing water changes would keep what little that is added in check. I wasnt trying to call know one out and I did specify because I was looking for the article. When I read that artcicle all I had to use was kent supplements and purple-up. Neither one said phosphate free. So I google them both and read a ton of articles but only one said anything about it so I guess I shouldn't of even posted that. My bad. Lol

 

[MyReefToYours]

I do about 60 gallons weekly to just to keep trace elements up.

 

[shred5]

Ace your not going to get scientific data for everything and if you have actually been in the hobby 20 years you would know that but I thought earlier you said 15 years. You don't need scientific research for most things, its common sense.. I cut my self and I bleed I do not need scientific research to tell me that.

More has been discovered about coral and fish breeding by hobbiest than has ever been discovered in a lab.

Lots of people get 0 percent phosphate from their tap water. I would check your tester with some test solution or get a lab grade kit like hach or maybe you need a better ro/di system. I had too add a second d/i cart to mine.

 

[Built347]

I do about 60 gallons weekly to just to keep trace elements up.

Jared. Do u not dose all of that?. I figured you would need a lot more than salt mix has to offer...

 

[Ace25]

I have been in the aquarium hobby for over 20 years, first 5 years I had fresh water at home, but worked on saltwater at school. When I graduated and was no longer working on saltwater tanks daily at school I got the bug to get into saltwater at home. I started keeping aquariums in 1988, first saltwater in 1993 and I did FO/Predator tanks until 2000, which is when I took the leap into reef tanks/corals. How does that have anything to do with the topic at hand though?

When it comes to something this important, to do water changes or not to do them, I require scientific proof now. 5-10-15 years ago, I didn't even question it (I just did them), but the deeper I get into the hobby the more I want to know all the fine details. If none exists but people have sound theories as to what bad things can happen from not doing a water change I will be happy to be the guinea pig and test for specific things. I do have labs at my disposal to do such testing, I just need to know what exactly I should be testing for. Common sense is not what I consider solid evidence. In the case of phosphates, it is "common sense" that people do water changes to reduce nitrates and phosphates as part of the reason for doing them, well, my testing has proven to me that most of the time the water going into my tank had higher phosphate levels than the water I was taking out, so how does that common sense translate to scientific proof in terms of using water changes for phosphate reduction?

I replaced all 7 stages of my RO/DI filter last month, and I do have 2 DI canisters on my setup. I will take a sample of RO/DI water into my work and test on their equipment which is much better than what I have at home. I would like to know what other people here are testing phosphates with though, some how I suspect they are using liquid test kits, which most of us know are almost completely worthless for our hobby because we strive to keep our phosphates within a range that is lower than liquid test kits can provide accurate readings for.

 

[shred5]

I have been in the aquarium hobby for over 20 years, first 5 years I had fresh water at home, but worked on saltwater at school. When I graduated and was no longer working on saltwater tanks daily at school I got the bug to get into saltwater at home. I started keeping aquariums in 1988, first saltwater in 1993 and I did FO/Predator tanks until 2000, which is when I took the leap into reef tanks/corals. How does that have anything to do with the topic at hand though?

When it comes to something this important, to do water changes or not to do them, I require scientific proof now. 5-10-15 years ago, I didn't even question it (I just did them), but the deeper I get into the hobby the more I want to know all the fine details. If none exists but people have sound theories as to what bad things can happen from not doing a water change I will be happy to be the guinea pig and test for specific things. I do have labs at my disposal to do such testing, I just need to know what exactly I should be testing for. Common sense is not what I consider solid evidence. In the case of phosphates, it is "common sense" that people do water changes to reduce nitrates and phosphates as part of the reason for doing them, well, my testing has proven to me that most of the time the water going into my tank had higher phosphate levels than the water I was taking out, so how does that common sense translate to scientific proof in terms of using water changes for phosphate reduction?

I replaced all 7 stages of my RO/DI filter last month, and I do have 2 DI canisters on my setup. I will take a sample of RO/DI water into my work and test on their equipment which is much better than what I have at home. I would like to know what other people here are testing phosphates with though, some how I suspect they are using liquid test kits, which most of us know are almost completely worthless for our hobby because we strive to keep our phosphates within a range that is lower than liquid test kits can provide accurate readings for.

What does it matter? Experience counts for allot in this hobby.

If you are looking for scientific proof I would not be on the forums. Most scientific proof gets debunked after a while anyway. Plus I post scientific proof and what do I get (you can’t believe everything you read on the internet.) also as far as I know there is no one on reef2reef that owns a lab or is a scientist. So telling everyone they are wrong because they have no scientific data is kind of not cool.

You are right most hobby grade test kits are not accurate or read low enough on the phosphate scale. That's why I always say use a hach lab grade test kit, but even then test kits only test for orthophosphate so you will never get accurate measurements.

 

[beaslbob]

I am curious to hear other peoples reasons for why they do water changes. Myself, I used to be over the top with them for a long time, 50% water changes every week on my tanks. My reasons were a mixture of 3 things, 1. It is what everyone said I had to do to successfully keep an SPS reef tank. 2. To replace major and minor elements. and 3. To remove bad stuff from the water. It was very hard for me to break that 15+ year habit, it took me a year to finally quit cold turkey. It has been almost 2 years now without doing a water change and I feel my systems are doing better for it. Since I was so "Pro water change" for so many years I truly expected major issues when I finally quit doing them, but to my surprise I have experienced the opposite (due to my filtration and dosing).

So why do you do water changes on your tank(s)?

I don't

 

[Ace25]

What does it matter? Experience counts for allot in this hobby.

If you are looking for scientific proof I would not be on the forums. Most scientific proof gets debunked after a while anyway. Plus I post scientific proof and what do I get (you can’t believe everything you read on the internet.) also as far as I know there is no one on reef2reef that owns a lab or is a scientist. So telling everyone they are wrong because they have no scientific data is kind of not cool.

You are right most hobby grade test kits are not accurate or read low enough on the phosphate scale. That's why I always say use a hach lab grade test kit, but even then test kits only test for orthophosphate so you will never get accurate measurements.

First, I love how you edit your posts and get nastier with each edit. Speaks volumes about you to me.

Again, not understanding how my experience and time in the hobby has anything to do with the topic at hand, which is why other people do water changes. I am not trying to tell anyone how to run their tank so what does my experience have to do with anything in this thread? You asked for pics of my tanks (which has nothing to do with the thread), I provided them for you. You ask for my history (again, nothing to do with this thread), but I provided it... it seems all you are concerned about is bashing me and not helping at all with the topic at hand. Shame on you.

I never said anyone was wrong in this thread, I said I won't believe "old wives tales" if there is nothing to back that up. I don't expect anyone to have a lab at home, but if someone says something and states it as a fact, I am going to question why they think it is fact. Not only do I think that is cool to do, it is what I expect anyone to do in this hobby when they are given information that doesn't quite sound right to them. If they can provide a link with reputable information backing up exactly what they are saying, perfect, end of debate, if not, then I quite frankly am not going to put much into the statement. I am certainly not saying anyone is wrong for doing water changes, to me that is just erroring on the extreme side of caution, and there is nothing wrong with that in this hobby. I on the other hand am trying to make my tanks as efficient as possible and one of the ways I want to do that is to reduce the amount of water changes and just do them when they are actually required, not just because it is a certain day of the week/month. I am not trying to make the first "never do a water change" reef tank, just trying to make the most cost efficient reef tank without sacrificing the health of the inhabitants. If anything thinks I am harming my livestock by all means, speak up and tell me the exact issue that you think is causing harm.

Then you say if I want scientific proof, forums are not the place for that, but then you say most of the breakthroughs in the hobby come from hobbyist. You are giving conflicting information. If most of the breakthroughs come from hobbyist, wouldn't the first place to find answers, or at the very least point me in the right direction, come from hobbyist? All it takes is 1 person to say "I do water changes because of this...." and give a reason and a link showing why they think the way they do. If the link explains to me a very good argument on why water changes are needed and I can't find any faults to it, and I don't have other means to solve the issues, then I will gladly do water changes.

Maybe I missed it, can you point to where you posted proof in this thread on the reasons why water changes are required? I am looking for any links posted by you in this thread, I don't see one. Even if you don't have scientific proof, but have a good theory on what exactly causes issues in a reef tank that is resolved by water changes (that my filtration/maintenance doesn't currently solve) that will be very helpful. I can do my own research, I just need a little piece of information on what to research and I will find it on my own.

If we can create a filtration setup that solves 99% of the reasons we do water changes, and that 1% doesn't actually become an issue until after 1.. 5.. 10 years, what is the point of doing them weekly/monthly? If I found a smoking gun that said "X ions become so unbalanced after X time it causes a tank crash" I could look into finding alternative ways to maintain a proper balance for that issue, and if there isn't one, I am fine with having to do a 100% water change once a year if that is what it takes to keep everything stable long term. 1 annual 75G water change is a whole lot cheaper than my previous method of 35G weekly, and if the results are the same, I will pick the much cheaper method. Not saying 1 year is a magic number... it could be 1 month or 10 years... that is the million dollar question, but first part to finding an answer to the question is to find out the cause that makes water go "bad" in the first place, which is still what I am looking for in this thread.

 

[Built347]

Wow!.. why the jabs people?.. can't someone be wrong without getting stoned for it... I thought we humans moved past that a few hundred years ago... I am reminded once again why I don't stray from my home forum often.. good luck guys. ?????

 

[robby2782]

I haven't done one in 3 years and growth, color, and health is great. Only caveat for me is testing all the equipment used to keep pristine conditions.

 

[Scuba George]

Honestly if I didn't have a 29g I would add sups, avoid water changes, and run gfo. 2 bucks a week is nothing. Sure added up by say 5 years it's a good amount of cash, but who looks at anything that way. If that were the case nobody would buy anything. I buy milk all the time and it adds up doesn't mean I'm gonna go buy a cow.


I need gills @_@

 

[robby2782]

There's more than one way to be successful in this hobby.

 

[Scuba George]

Thats why I stated another way I would do it. If that was directed towards me



I need gills @_@

 

[robby2782]

Thats why I stated another way I would do it. If that was directed towards me



I need gills @_@

It wasn't a shot, I'm agreeing with you. I'm usually the one who gets criticized for not doing them. I respect everyone's perspectives and experiences and I'm always asking questions even though I've been in the hobby 20 years. Water changes are good, but anyway you look at it it's going to be expensive.

 

[Scuba George]

Cool hard to interpret context on a forum


I need gills @_@