Why folks don’t like adding nutrients

[sixty_reefer]

Fish food is a phosphate, ammonia, and carbon additive.

You can not keep a reef tank alive without adding those 3 things. There is no meaningful difference between adding them via food, or directly - except that dosing them directly gives you way more control.

Ammonia is just the result of the decomposition process of waste and dead mass. it’s not essential to the well being of a reef tank is just something that we need to manage and take in consideration reason being in the sea ammonia is minimal in comparison to our aquariums.

the results of feeding is organic dissolved carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus in many different forms.

 

[Mark Novack]

Well, Monday I'll fill the vials and send them off to Modern Reef. I'll see what the farm has to offer.

 

[MnFish1]

Help me understand, why do folks don’t like adding nutrients to a enclosed system wend in most times sources of Carbon, Nitrogen and phosphorus can be the quickest ways to fix nutrient issues in a system, not to mention that can save a tone of €€€ in medias and avoid nuisances.

is it mainly because there’s a lack of literature on the understanding of enclosed systems nutrition or mainly just a personal choice because the subject is not well understood for most.

another question I have is why some folks are so proactive at using hidden nutrients in some products and then so against at using nutrients that are clearly explicit.

We are adding nutrients every time we feed the fish. I used to add 'trace elements' - but when I stopped - noticed no difference - except I wasn't spending as much month. BUT - I'm not sure I understand your question - when you are talking about 'nutrients' and then mention carbon, nitrogen and phosphorous - I get the sense you're asking a different question.

IMHO - in a properly balanced tank - there is little need to add 'nutrients' that we can't easily measure - and if there are no problems.

 

[sixty_reefer]

We are adding nutrients every time we feed the fish. I used to add 'trace elements' - but when I stopped - noticed no difference - except I wasn't spending as much month. BUT - I'm not sure I understand your question - when you are talking about 'nutrients' and then mention carbon, nitrogen and phosphorous - I get the sense you're asking a different question.

The question is fairly straight forward no hidden agenda in it. Carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus are the 3 main forms of organic nutrients that we use fairly commonly in the hobby.

the question on the opening is more why are we comfortable dosing only a few form of nutrients and not others. Vodka is a good example here Vs calcium nitrate that some folks are against.

IMHO - in a properly balanced tank - there is little need to add 'nutrients' that we can't easily measure - and if there are no problems.

There is no need to dose nutrients in a balanced system, unless someone where trying to try and grow coral faster by adding some beneficial nutrients to aid growth. AB+ and aminos come to mind as a example

 

[Mark Novack]

Why do the nutrients come in CNP? Why dose carbon to lower what is being put in? Is it a three part or is the carbon part an option?

 

[MnFish1]

The question is fairly straight forward no hidden agenda in it. Carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus are the 3 main forms of organic nutrients that we use fairly commonly in the hobby.

the question on the opening is more why are we comfortable dosing only a few form of nutrients and not others. Vodka is a good example here Vs calcium nitrate that some folks are against.

There is no need to dose nutrients in a balanced system, unless someone where trying to try and grow coral faster by adding some beneficial nutrients to aid growth. AB+ and aminos come to mind as a example

I am not sure that it's anything but personal preference - and levels - and experience. But - I think your initial premise is flawed a bit. Where do you get the idea that people are more comfortable dosing x vs. y as a general 'rule'. Isn't it kind of like asking why do some people use live clams and others use flake food as fish food? Again perhaps I'm not completely understanding the question. IMHO - all of the various nutrients we add to the tank are broken down - or taken up into organisms and are metabolized. whether AB+ or another brand, etc Right?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Why do the nutrients come in CNP?

Artificial nutrient don’t always contain CNP, it depends the product chosen greatly.

Why dose carbon to lower what is being put in? Is it a three part or is the carbon part an option?

Dissolved organic carbon is a nutrient that works well at reducing pollutant nutrients like nitrates and phosphates.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I am not sure that it's anything but personal preference - and levels - and experience. But - I think your initial premise is flawed a bit. Where do you get the idea that people are more comfortable dosing x vs. y as a general 'rule'. Isn't it kind of like asking why do some people use live clams and others use flake food as fish food? Again perhaps I'm not completely understanding the question. IMHO - all of the various nutrients we add to the tank are broken down - or taken up into organisms and are metabolized. whether AB+ or another brand, etc Right?

May just be a observation from my side, I see many folks saying that artificial nutrients are chemicals that shouldn’t be dosed to a reef tank under no situation (some commented on this thread) although they fine with dosing ab+, reef energy, phytoplankton, bacteria like mb7, clean etc.. that contains artificial nutrients as a primary ingredient. Go figure

 

[HomebroodExotics]

The question is fairly straight forward no hidden agenda in it. Carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus are the 3 main forms of organic nutrients that we use fairly commonly in the hobby.

the question on the opening is more why are we comfortable dosing only a few form of nutrients and not others. Vodka is a good example here Vs calcium nitrate that some folks are against.

There is no need to dose nutrients in a balanced system, unless someone where trying to try and grow coral faster by adding some beneficial nutrients to aid growth. AB+ and aminos come to mind as a example

What does it mean to you to dose nutrients? Why do you separate certain nutrients in your mind? I'm really struggling to understand this concept that some nutrients are better than others.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

If I blended up a bag of TDO pellets and mixed it with water and pumped it through a versa, would I be dosing my aquarium or feeding it?

 

[MnFish1]

May just be a observation from my side, I see many folks saying that artificial nutrients are chemicals that shouldn’t be dosed to a reef tank under no situation (some commented on this thread) although they fine with dosing ab+, reef energy, phytoplankton, bacteria like mb7, clean etc.. that contains artificial nutrients as a primary ingredient. Go figure

OHHHHHH - Now I understand. I believe you are correct. In other words, don't use chemiclean - but dose more nitrate, etc. You know that saying (which I do not think is true) - nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank - I think it's a version of this. I.e. - You should not fix problems like cyano, Dinos, etc - in 3 days - when its taken weeks to develop - and some of the 'artificial' chemicals can have other effects on the microbiome - as compared to dosing x ml of vodka weekly. By the way - I'm not dissing people that believe that nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank - Just personal opinion. For example - treating velvet with copper - by necessity - acts quickly, etc etc.

 

[djf91]

I’ve said this before on your other threads, but why did many successful SPS tanks of the past (~2000’s) have such great success while testing Nitrate and phosphate almost at 0, or at 0. Nobody had Dino’s either. I had a small 30 gallon cube with metal halide around the year 2007, that measured nitrate at 0 and phosphate at 0.01-0.02, and I honestly don’t know if I’ve ever been able to reproduce that amount of growth and color in SPS since.

 

[sixty_reefer]

What does it mean to you to dose nutrients? Why do you separate certain nutrients in your mind? I'm really struggling to understand this concept that some nutrients are better than others.

I believe we need to separate them as they are not the same thing. Organic nutrients drive growth and contribute to the overall balance of a system as inorganic nutrients need to be removed as they’re beneficial capabilities are different. We need both organic and inorganic and as all nutrients start as organic they don’t stay in that form for long in our system hence the need to a continuous replacement of both.

 

[sixty_reefer]

If I blended up a bag of TDO pellets and mixed it with water and pumped it through a versa, would I be dosing my aquarium or feeding it?

Both really. Organic will eventually become inorganic

 

[sixty_reefer]

OHHHHHH - Now I understand. I believe you are correct. In other words, don't use chemiclean - but dose more nitrate, etc. You know that saying (which I do not think is true) - nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank - I think it's a version of this. I.e. - You should not fix problems like cyano, Dinos, etc - in 3 days - when its taken weeks to develop - and some of the 'artificial' chemicals can have other effects on the microbiome - as compared to dosing x ml of vodka weekly. By the way - I'm not dissing people that believe that nothing good happens quickly in a reef tank - Just personal opinion. For example - treating velvet with copper - by necessity - acts quickly, etc etc.

Yea, along those lines a reef tank with zero nutrients in my mind will benefit from a quick action of adding inorganic nutrients Vs adding more food in the hope to raise the deficient nutrient.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I’ve said this before on your other threads, but why did many successful SPS tanks of the past (~2000’s) have such great success while testing Nitrate and phosphate almost at 0, or at 0. Nobody had Dino’s either. I had a small 30 gallon cube with metal halide around the year 2007, that measured nitrate at 0 and phosphate at 0.01-0.02, and I honestly don’t know if I’ve ever been able to reproduce that amount of growth and color in SPS since.

Many things will become a variable here, firstly you can only grow something that you have. Meaning that zero nutrients will only grow a nuisance if that nuisance cell is present in the system. Secondly most reef systems back in the 2000’s were more directed at benefiting autotrophic bacteria Vs the filtration that promotes heterotrophic bacteria that we often see now and more like the test accuracy near zero am zero are two different things.

 

[Mark Novack]

I do understand the difference between elemental and organic nutrients. I don't understand dosing carbon and nitrate and phosphate together. I see that one can raise the levels but why carbon at the same time? Or am I not understanding it? I also don't know the symptoms of too low nutrients. Too high and urchins drop dead. But they don't like too high raw organics either.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I do understand the difference between elemental and organic nutrients. I don't understand dosing carbon and nitrate and phosphate together. I see that one can raise the levels but why carbon at the same time? Or am I not understanding it? I also don't know the symptoms of too low nutrients. Too high and urchins drop dead. But they don't like too high raw organics either.

I don’t believe that no one doses dissolved carbon, nitrates and phosphates that’s counterproductive and no real gain from it. It’s common to dose dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen and phosphorus as a method. NP bacto balance is a good example of this. The goal is to remove inorganic nutrients wile adding organic nutrients that are more beneficial for growth of photosynthetic organisms.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Is dosing Aspartic acid and Glutumic acid and Acetic Acid similar to carbon dosing?
Will dosing the above amino acids work to lower nutrients the same way carbon dosing does?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Is dosing Aspartic acid and Glutumic acid and Acetic Acid similar to carbon dosing?

In my view no.
They contain nitrogen atoms

Will dosing the above amino acids work to lower nutrients the same way carbon dosing does?

Those ingredients that you mentioned above on they’re own won’t lower nutrients as they are sources of nitrogen. You may need to take in consideration that most amino acids sold in the hobby contain carbohydrates and they contain sugars and starches that will lower nutrients. AB+ for example contains carbohydrates and you may have heard of some folks having Cyanobacteria blooming after dosing amino acids the reason for that is the nitrogen content that some nuisance algae and bacteria can assimilate during photosynthesis.