Why I love my Metal Halide

[DeniseAndy]

I love my MH and my T5s. Personally, I love getting the cool post once a month from the electric company telling me my neighbors are this high and efficient homes are this high and you, well you seem to be off the charts somewhere. Waiting for the police to come still after 6 years.

 

[mcarroll]

I've seen mixed reviews on lux meters while researching.. Some say they are useful and some say they don't provide the info we need.. I might have more research to do it seems

If you do a search here on the forum with my username and of the term "lux" you should be able to find lots of threads.

In a nutshell, for this purpose a lux meter is fine. The difference between a par meter and a lux meter is not significant enough to matter for this.

Eyeballs are far worse than lux meters at judging relative brightness and the corals are adaptable almost in the extreme. Because of these facts lux meters works great. [emoji106][emoji6]

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with using a PAR meter if you have one, they just cost 20 times as much.

However, don't let cost to be the reason you aren't using a meter.

 

[ngvu1]

I would love to have MH over my tank, but being a "green", cheap is another word for that , person, I do not see myself using MH unless solar panels are on the roof. I have a buddy reefer, an old timer, since college. He would not use anything but MH regardless of $250/month for his electric bill; and that was a good month. His coral colors are amazing. He gave me frags before and they all change color under my T5 (to worse of course). I have a blasto from him. It was bright pink. I have never seen any corals that pink and glowing like a neon light before. Under my tank for a while, it is a bit dark red now. Still not bad but it is nothing like when it was under MH. I used to say heating the tank while chilling it down it stupid and inefficient. However, I guess there is a price for anything!

 

[WetWhistle]

The 250w radium is a excellent MH bulb and you will get great growth and color out of it. I used MH for 20+ years and still love them to this day. The 250w radium 20k was my bulb of choice. But I like my Hydr52 LED for growth and color now after I switched over on my DT 3 years ago and I haven't looked back. One of the best part about MH is they are plug and play unlike LED. So you plug them in and they work, no messing around with color spectrum. I get the shimmer on my LED like I did with MH and I love that. You can't go wrong with a 250w radium. You will be happy with this bulb long term.

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Does anyone have an accurate breakdown on energy consumption differences? I know they initial cost and maintenance cost differences. Just wondering how much more MHs cost to run. I've done LEDs for a while now and they have been really hit or miss. Some I loved and had great success and some not so much. MH seems to always be consistent.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I tried solar panels, but they were more expensive than my halides over 20+ years.

 

[d2mini]

Does anyone have an accurate breakdown on energy consumption differences? I know they initial cost and maintenance cost differences. Just wondering how much more MHs cost to run. I've done LEDs for a while now and they have been really hit or miss. Some I loved and had great success and some not so much. MH seems to always be consistent.

You have to do the math. Depends on your energy costs. Mine is only $.09. Multiply this by the watts of your lighting and how many hours a day you run it.
Over a year i figured it would cost me about $100 more to run the 3 mh and 4 t5 vs the 4 radion pros I was running before.
This didn't include a chiller, which ended up costing me an additional $20-25/month during the warmer parts of the year.

 

[ngvu1]

We have 5 tiers in CA, so the math is more complicated and it depends on the current situation. In OC, CA we charge by tier which is $0.17, $0.22, $0.26, $0.32 and tier 5 is more at $0.32 per kilo Watt (I thought it was $0.36 but I don't see it now).
Anyway, I try to stay in tier 2 or 3 so it won't be so expensive. However, the Central Air is energy hoag. The MH will make sure it runs a few months a year. I have heard the other argument about using LED and you pay for the heaters during the winter......T5 and LED for coral pop is what I am following. I keep my tank cooler like 75-76 during the winter and 78-80 during the summer.

You have to do the math. Depends on your energy costs. Mine is only $.09. Multiply this by the watts of your lighting and how many hours a day you run it.
Over a year i figured it would cost me about $100 more to run the 3 mh and 4 t5 vs the 4 radion pros I was running before.
This didn't include a chiller, which ended up costing me an additional $20-25/month during the warmer parts of the year.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@jetmaker, reefing for little over 6 years. Been using LED for almost 4 of em. New technology is always the future

Over 30+ here when I started there was uv and mh no Rodi it was for scientists no protein skimmers we had tap water and api slime coat. I've been on at least 5 forums and 15 yrs ago we were talking water issues. Led came out about then and since it came out I've noticed triple or more about disease that wasn't talked about then I know halide will kill good bacteria but will also kill bad plus brook velvet and ick and others I don't think you know what you are talking about at this point you need more experience.

You disagree? You don't think LEDs are the future? I could sell a hundred led fixtures at pretty crazy prices tomorrow all over my local reefing community.. Yet can't hardly find someone to take this awesome 250w x2 Luminarc reflectiors and massive pfo ballast.. And it's not because MH is the future!

New technology is usually the future. Not always because its better usually. Its cheaper to manufacture. And people like NEW. IMPROVED and SAVINGS.
Betta was a better format. CRT does give a better picture(and takes hd signal), audio records are less compressed and give better sound, the movies industry made more money from blockbuster and made more movies.
There are DC ballast for Metal halide. Big Led take almost as much as a MH in some cases.
Fortunately in this hobby theres now enough money to invest in serious research into the quality of an LED. Thats great for us and scientists.

But if you don't have a light meter of any kind or haven't used both. why talk?
Analog is always better and digital technology is always racing to mimic it. After all. Its light. Its analog.
Boy I love the way my led ramps up, blue to blue white, 420nm spike (my tahiti sunrise) then my 150MH kicks in for 5 hrs. MMMM

 

[jackson6745]

IMO the benefit of running a more successful lighting (MH+T5) outweighs saving a few bucks each year. Corals aren't cheap!
The thing is after you over light your reef with LED to actually cover your tank, you've saved almost nothing ...... especially when you try to sell your ever changing fixture after a few years. I just don't get the appeal for those of you that prefer LED lighting for SPS :/

 

[McMullen]

I agree that combo lighting is probably superior. My units are certainly flawed, but I'm getting great color and growth on my sps.

I was being tongue in cheek with the new tech is future, cause it's NEW and the FUTURE. Not implying new is better. These arguments are arbatrary and based in bias. There are many roads to success in this hobby and some of these comments are a bit pointed. The OP started this thread with their personal experience and opinion. Some how it's now Us vs THEM.

 

[jackson6745]

You are right McMullen. The op didn't want this to turn into a vs. thread.
I'll leave it alone with pic of why I love a 400w halide
June 20th by rich colombo, on Flickr

DSC_0047 by rich colombo, on Flickr

IMG_2530 by rich colombo, on Flickr

IMG_2531 by rich colombo, on Flickr

 

[McMullen]

Looks great!!

 

[McMullen]

I'll also add, a pic is worth a thousand words. All you have to do is post those pics and write underneath, MH.

 

[timkenagy]

My bad taste was from a single Radion g2 over my deep blue 30 frag tank, seeing several dim looking SPS reefs in my area follow mfg recommendations, and a good buddy (very experienced) with poor results using Mitras over his 300g. The best results that I have seen with LED is when user incorporate T5 into the lighting scheme, or grossly "over-light" with LED, which I believe to be the actual amount needed to avoid shadowing i.e. my buddy had 8 AI figures over a 200g with great SPS success, and Pieces of the Ocean (vendor) had a 75g long with 5 kessil and awesome SPS color/growth. I simply cannot afford the amount of LED fixtures that I believe would be needed over my 32x32x26 cube, especially since I would just be trying to replicate what I already have with my giesman spectra at a much higher cost with little increase in efficiency.

Where on earth did this come from? I personally went through this exercise using all lighting technologies and that is WAY off.
Initial set up of LED is MUCH higher than MH. And the energy usage between the two is no where near that different.
In my case, even with bulb changes, I could go several years before I would start saving money by using led, and by that time i'd probably be looking to upgrade my led fixtures.
This has nothing to do with which is better, just pointing out a problem with the math in that chart.
Also... 50,000 hours? Where did that number come from? I would have to run a mh fixture for 16 years to get that many hours on it. I guarantee you that the avg person will upgrade their led fixtures 3-4x in that amount of time, if they can even last past the avg 18 months in the hobby.

I don't know the exact power consumption of LEDs vs halides but I know I don't have to be super smart to know my 90w Onyx fixture on my display upstairs is consuming way less power than my 500w MH light is downstairs. And as far as startup costs I think the reference was per fixture.. And $299 is a pretty good middle of the road price.. Actually it's exactly what I paid for mine. And you can get way cheaper (Chinese box) or way higher (Radions).. But you get what you pay for.. The same could be applied to a new MH fixture. I would expect to pay around $299 for a good brand new MH fixture. I think it seems way cheaper because there's a ton of used options in the T5 and MH that isn't there yet with LEDs. And LEDs have and will continue to come down in price as the research costs get paid for.

But in the end I still say use what works for you.. I still use both but I think many tried the cheap route with LED and blamed the technology when it didn't work out for them. I've walked through some of the bigger aquaculture facilities and many are using LEDs now. So a blanket statement that they don't work is an outdated statement.

As for the OP.. He knew EXACTLY the debate and arguments his post would bring that why he said "I don't want to create a this light is better than this light debate by posting this but,..."

 

[timkenagy]

I'll also add, a pic is worth a thousand words. All you have to do is post those pics and write underneath, MH.

Not MH

 

[klesel]

Well if got both mh and a kessil love them both get the shimmer with both but the growth from mh is much better. Think they both have pro n cons like if said in other post if done what works for one person dosent mean it works for all do what works for you think technology has done great things for hobby but there a lot of old school things that are time less . there are a lot of factors that give people the end results not only lighting is effecting the corals you see .one nice thing I can say mh bulbs are 1/2 price now compared to years ago .

 

[bobman]

I have used mh lighting for close to 10 years and when setting up this tank I have noticed some things. First is there was no actual drop in my power bill (at least not a noticeable one). Costs for fixtures are close to the same (both you can spend a years salary on if you want). Only savings I see is I wont have to replace my bulbs every 6-9 months. However depending on the LED fixture you get you might be replacing the fixture in a couple years as the drivers burn out on cheaper fixtures so honestly that cost savings really is not true. Sure the more you spend on your LED fixture the long it should last but that cost goes up quickly. So all in all costs are close to the same IMO.

You do not get as much heat from LED but all my years running MH I never had a heat issue so if you setup your tank for your lighting heat really is a mute point IMO. As far as growth I cant really say as this tank is only about 4 months old so IMO not enough time to tell but I do think the MH was a little better and so was coloration but that can also be attributed to I and having a nitrate issue as well and could have nothing to do with the LED at all.

The only noticeable difference I can see is getting a good pic with LED lighting is almost impossible. It is always washed out in blue. Sure I can adjust my lights or get gel filters for the camera but with MH I can just point and shoot and bingo I have a perfect pic everytime.

I have considered going back to MH with LED atinics and probably will when this fixture kicks the bucket or I find a good deal on a used mh setup.

 

[d2mini]

I don't know the exact power consumption of LEDs vs halides but I know I don't have to be super smart to know my 90w Onyx fixture on my display upstairs is consuming way less power than my 500w MH light is downstairs.

You can't compare that 90w led to a couple 250w mh. A single 250w mh in a proper reflector will give wayyyy better coverage/spread.
That's the problem is people don't compare apples to apples.
I had 4 radions pros over a 7' tank and it wasn't near enough for sps. I really needed at least two more. That would be 6 total.
Instead, I replaced them with three 250w mh and four 80w T5. That's 1020w in led vs 1070w in mh/t5. Negligible difference.

 

[WilRams]

Giesemann Spectra 250w MH/T5 combo for me!