Within 5 years of using Bayer dip, had a death?

[Kungpaoshizi]

Since we cannot account for proper dissection to determine cause of death, please only vote if you meet the following requirements:

1. Have used Bayer as a dip
2. Had a death(s) of a coral, fish, crab, etc, that was not directly the result of:

Some compound being dumped into the tank (ie: kids dumped bleach, food accidentally dumped, etc)
A obvious mistake on your part (ie: forgot to turn the ATO back on, refilled gfo, etc)
A hardware failure (ie: heater blew up, pump stopped, etc)
A specimen that displayed a sickness or disease prior to introduction (ie: corals that showed deterioration or missing tissue, fish that had physical damage, etc)

Please choose yes or no, and if yes, please also choose each corresponding time range. (yes I only had one death at a few months, or yes I had a death at a few months and after a couple years)

This does not prove anything directly, but it does aide our progression as a hobby.
Please give it some thought and be honest, thank you for your contribution.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Just added my own vote, kinda surprising so far.

 

[Mirkus]

Ha, I have no idea what this survey is trying to prove. I'd be shocked to see any no's

 

[TheHarold]

This is stupid. Everyone loses corals, especially in 5 years.

"Has anyone lost a coral within 5 years of doing a water change?"

Stupid.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Not stupid. But not entirely accurate. Definitely not useless.

 

[BoneXriffic]

I cannot view results without voting, and having no experience with bayer, i cannot vote. Would like results up date from time to time to follow

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

I cannot view results without voting, and having no experience with bayer, i cannot vote. Would like results up date from time to time to follow

Hey Mods, any way I can edit this post still? I guess I could add a 'never used it' to allow visibility post-vote..

 

[787will]

Im sorry i have to agree, as it stands i dont see how this survey is achieving anything, you need to be a lot more specific if you want to achieve results.

 

[6dxb9aph]

I think that in a stocked reef tank it would take a miracle to not have something die in a time period of 5 YEARS. Things die and sometimes it is just the normal life span, sometimes it is something that you cannot test for or fix. Not to mention 5 years post something happening (dip), I would say it is quite a stretch to think that is a cause of death. This poll is only furthering your misunderstanding of the relationship of one variable to an outcome in a literal sea of variables. This is not how you do research.


The same logic and reasoning being used I could make a poll that said have any of your family members died in the five year period after having a chocolate milkshake. Do not include obvious mistakes, prior illness, or organ failure. Yes there is a stray possibility that somebody died from a milkshake, but this question will not give you the answer to that. There are an infinite number of things that could happen and chances are it is not having had a chocolate milkshake. The point is, this poll has none

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

I think it's very important to look at long-term effects of various dips on the animals we keep, but the above poll will be of little use in that regard.

 

[McMullen]

I appreciate the intent behind this survey, but I agree any data obtained is useless.

Using poison in our tanks may very well build up over time. Proving will be very difficult. Also, consider your mind has been made! You must keep your own bias out of your research.

 

[andrewey]

This poll leads me to two conclusions- either someone is trying to short bayer's stock or someone has a vendetta against bayer dips and a very tenuous grasp on toxicology.

 

[gcarroll]

Add to the poll,

Did not dip with Bayer and had a loss over the last 5 years.
Did not dip with Bayer and did not have a loss over the last 5 years.

Frankly the parameters of the poll make the research rediculous! The majority of hobbyists are not even in the hobby for 5 years. And those of us that make it that long don't have the same tank set up for more than 5 years. Since keeping SPS means you are always 1 day away from loosing everything, 5 years is a long time to go without making a mistake.

That said this poll seems like just another attempt skirt the fact that we are typically to blame for our losses in this hobby. Especially with acros! We reefers in general always look for a scapegoat to share that blame.

IMO, Many of us take on acros because we understand that it is challenging. If you are going to be a successful SPS guy, you will eventually come to the realization, that some times you will not get an absolute reason for your failure.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Science has to start somewhere guys, don't like it, don't vote. Your comments do not help.
Short-term success and long-term success is difficult to record when it's loose comments over time on the forum.

The poll works for the very simple reason it tells us more than we already know. Interpretation will be left though.

And the simple fact people comment on '5 years?! oh wow, not have a death?!' implies that the norm in the hobby is that deaths are common. But until we look at circumstances surrounding these areas, we're just ignorantly claiming knowledge.

Make your own polls if you want, still tells ya more than you already know.

 

[6dxb9aph]

Science has to start somewhere guys, don't like it, don't vote. Your comments do not help.

The issue here is that this poll is not science nor does it reflect anything remotely scientific.
I think the fundamental issue is here and your other thread is that you do not have an understanding of the scientific process and how research works. I know this will come off as sounding harsh and condescending, but it is true and needs to be said. If your working from a different perspective and have different ideas about how science works, then you will continue to get the same types of responses to the messages you post.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Anecdotal evidence is indeed in the dictionary. I wish more people would look it up.

And a simple question even as 'what did you have for breakfast' can apply scientifically. Period.

 

[FL_Reefer]

Every single person has had a death in their tank in the last 5 years reguardless of what dip they have used, if their tanks even been running for 5 years. Need to rethink this poll bud cause it makes no sense. I can appreciate what you are trying to do but you need to go about it a different way.

 

[den75]

Absolutely useless poll as not a single thing can even remotely be concluded from it.

 

[robby2782]

Only 'yes' or 'no' would be relevant data for your hypothesis, and there are too many variables to deem the other 3 as credible data to prove your point. There should be 13 'yes', and 4 'no' if you were to narrow this survey down to just the two categories. Corals will simply rtn upon acclimation regardless of using bayer, so even the 'no' is not definitive data.

 

[d2mini]

Agree with above... I understand the intentions, but as is the results of the poll will mean absolutely nothing in regards to Bayer.