Would you support marine fish "micro breeders?"

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My friend Matt Pedersen just put out a great piece on Reef Builders about the limited release of captive bred Mandarins from renowned breeder Karen Brittain. He referenced my rant from a few months back about the ORA Mandarins falling out of production, which spurred some more thoughts about this topic.



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Come back..Please..


Matt focused on the fact that this is a very limited release, largely because Karen is selling old fish to make room for new fishes to work with, not as the start of a new selection of captive-bred Mandarins en masse. However, it made me think of the larger market potential for captive-bred fishes in general. Sadly, it appears that many budding fish breeders with mad skills are still feeling put off and discouraged, because of the perception that the hobby at large would rather pay a cheap price for wild caught fishes that “hopefully” will adapt to a captive life makes offering captive-bred fishes at competitive prices economically non-viable.

Matt beautifully sums up the challenge to the hobby with this statement:

“Maybe Karen, or some other breeder, will see these fish sell fast and be inspired to bring back a steady supply of captive-bred Mandarins. If that happens, the question will be whether*we’re collectively*aware enough to vote with our wallets when given a 2nd chance to make our choices?*Will we collectively keep buying the four $25 wild-collected and often emaciated Mandarins*in the hopes of finding*one that lives?*Or will we finally*spend some honest, conscientious*money*on a captive-bred Mandarin that already eats prepared foods? And when we finally get that fish home, will we put it in an aquarium with an appropriate environment, agreeable tankmates, and a proactive husbandry routine, realizing that captive breeding didn’t turn Mandarins into bullet-proof Damselfish?”

I’ve hit on this before, but it’s worth mentioning again- Why do we happily shell out big bucks for propagated corals almost without reflection, but the thought of grabbing a healthy, dependable captive-bred fish for three times the price of a wild-caught specimen of dubious origin is too much to bear? I mean, it just seems kind of inconsistent. I’ve tried to wrap my head around it many times, finally arriving at the conclusion that the same people who will pay big money for captive-propagated and (gulp) “LE” frags might be the same folks who will buy captive-bred fishes…It’s totally an assumption on my part, but it’s the only logical conclusion I can draw.


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"I'm more expensive. But I'm worth it."

So what that means is that there is a limited market for expensive stuff, right?

Okay, practical economics aside, I have a hard time believing that most hobbyists wouldn’t do their best to support captive-bred fishes being offered more extensively in the marketplace, with the understanding that they are going to pay more for a significantly different product.

My vision for the captive-bred marine ornamentals market for the near future, with the exception of mass-produced Clownfishes, is similar to the craft-brewed beer market: Emphasis on quality and variety, not large-scale production. With a viable “craft-breeding” market, we’d see a greater number of species being introduced by a larger pool of breeders, for the benefit of everyone. Maybe we will see analogous market growth patterns to the beer industry. Remember when the president of Sam Adams used to say in the commercials that, “The big breweries produce more in a day than I do all year…”? And look what’s happened to that company.



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It worked for beer...Why not for fishes?


Matt further lamented ( and echoed my sentiments) about the hobby’s perception about captive-bred fishes being possible limiting factor in success of such ventures. I mean, in the case of fishes like Mandarins, they’re never going to be “easy” fishes, at least for a while. They will require an environment that makes them feel comfortable, and still may eat live foods for a large percentage of their diet. They are not going to give up millions of years of evolutionary habits in one generation and just start chowing down on Tetra Min from day one- that needs to be understood.

As a business owner who’s company ethics are reflected in our core values (conscientious, sustainable, responsible), I am always thinking about the potential to create a viable market for captive-bred offerings. I challenge my friends in the breeding game to produce more than just Clownfishes.


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"Too much" is never enough...


I’ll put it in writing right now:

I would love to offer all sorts of captive-bred gobies, blennies, etc. as alternatives to wild-caught fishes. I’ll do my best to market the heck out of them. I’ll charge an appropriate price to help sustain these efforts, and provide a point of differentiation and value for the cost. Further, I’d encourage my colleagues and fellow vendors to support these efforts as well.

Would you, as hobbyists support a viable boutique market for captive-bred fishes, even if they cost more than their wild-collected counterparts? Or is the thought of paying $40 for a fish you could get from wild-collected sources for $16.00 just too much? I’m not trying to pander here, either- I’m really curious.

I’d like to hear about your opinions and thoughts on this matter. It’s not that esoteric- it’s of profound importance for the future of this hobby. If we can get a greater understanding of what the hobby consumers want, and how they perceive the value of such endeavors, we may be able to provide valuable feedback for prospective breeders who are willing to put the work in to make this a reality.

Have at it!


Scott Fellman
Unique Corals
 
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I would buy everything captive bred if I could. I have clowns, an orchid dottyback and a Annularis angel captive bred right now. Speaking of which...I haven't seen the captive bred Annularis from Bali lately...what happened?

I think captive bred is going to be the future whether you like it or not and I think it is vital to our hobby. I personally would be willing to spend the money on captive bred. It really is a shame that more hobbyists don't.
 
Yes. One reason I downsized to nanos is because I could not conscionably buy wild-caught fish for a larger tank any longer. I would gladly pay more for captive bred, and others should too because they are more likely to be healthy and survive a long time and therefore have to be replaced less often. Fish for this hobby should never be considered expendable, especially wild-caught, but lower prices encourage that mentality.
 
Depending on price point, I would consider captive, but the price has to get closer. I have a family budget to watch. If I have to chose between getting a fish for the tank, and paying the bills, bills first, then fish as money allows. It is hard to justify to my wife spending $60 on a mandy when there is one in the tank next to it for $20
 
Depending on price point, I would consider captive, but the price has to get closer. I have a family budget to watch. If I have to chose between getting a fish for the tank, and paying the bills, bills first, then fish as money allows. It is hard to justify to my wife spending $60 on a mandy when there is one in the tank next to it for $20

I think that's the wrong mentality to have. Of course bills and family come first but then you save up for that fish so you can help our hobby thrive in the long term. It's just good ethics IMO.
 
I think you missed the point. Captive bred fish are expensive, and it is hard to justify to the spouse spending the extra money when there is one in the tank next to it for 1/3rd the price. I do save for what I get.
 
Captive bred!!!! all the way any day!!! I rather save and have a few fish in my tank than support WC fish. I presently have a pair of CB bangaii and the pair of CB Reefgen clowns I got from you. Cheers. Fish are not expendible..... that is my un humble opinion...
 
It is a point of education. Few people understand how hard raising these fish are or how horrible some of the collection methods are. If they don't know there is no way they can justify spending more money.
 
Depending on price point, I would consider captive, but the price has to get closer. I have a family budget to watch. If I have to chose between getting a fish for the tank, and paying the bills, bills first, then fish as money allows. It is hard to justify to my wife spending $60 on a mandy when there is one in the tank next to it for $20

The reason that mandarin is only 20 is because it is caught via spear. Many of these fish either die or suffer life long damage from this. I do believe that a lot of the early failure with this fish is due to damage from collection. Those that are hand collected or captive raised are more expensive but also have a much higher survival rate. By buying these cheaper mandarins you are supporting a method that results in a high mortality rate and low success rate. I have both a wild and captive raised mandarin. The two are kept in the exact same conditions and the difference between the two is night and day. I struggle to keep the wild one alive due to internal damage. He eats and eats but struggles to properly swim. He doest digest his food correctly. It is very sad to watch a fish you have to basicly hand feed four times a day for years fail to thrive.
 
Well now It is getting a bit upsetting here. Like I said price needs to come down to make captive raised fish viable, because people don't understand fully the difference. I know all this, I was contributing to the conversation the problems with dealing with people who don't see it the way we all do.
 
Good to see opinions; I think we can all agree that a key component in the continued success of captive bred fishes in the marketplace will be education of consumers. Its our job as marketers to show consumers the real value of such fishes. I think for the foreseeable future, it will not be viable for many captive bred fishes to compete, price-wise, against wild caught specimens. I don't think that strictly looking at pricing makes sense right now. IMHO, it's really a matter of giving consumers a choice and educating them about the benefits of captive bred. When educated, the value should be more obvious to the consumers.
 
It'd take me longer to save up for captive-breds, but I'd be more than willing to do it just to support the effort. Wild reefs are definitely in trouble, and if we don't start a collectively better effort to breed these animals they may disappear or simply become completely unavailable in the very near future.
 
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In my view, buying a fish should be a rare occurrence. One that is planned and considered. If I am only buying a few fish a year the difference between $20 and $60 is less significant, especially if the $60 fish eats pellets and is more likely to live for many years. It pains me to note that many fish stores would go out of business if everyone agreed with me on this point.
 
I have a captive bred Marine betta, naked clowns and neon goby, but have a few wild caught wrasses. I'm a believer in captive bred, the issue is, some captive bred fish are an arm and a leg, not because of cost of rearing, but because they are exotic and can get away w it. Like designer clowns, and some of the high end Angels people are breeding. I know I have naked clowns (but they arent that pricey compared to whats out there), but I cant fathom over paying for something designer or exquisite. I just wont get the fish or I'll wait til one falls in my lap, that's been at a store fore months & they want to get rid of it cheap, or from another hobbiest, etc. Other than that, Im all for buying ORA sunrise dottyback over the WC dottyback, or ORA gobys, Marine bettas, etc over heir wild caught counterparts. I know that's not a market driven price.
 
Well now It is getting a bit upsetting here. Like I said price needs to come down to make captive raised fish viable, because people don't understand fully the difference. I know all this, I was contributing to the conversation the problems with dealing with people who don't see it the way we all do.

I apologize if anything I said came off the wrong way or personal. You are right that one of the biggest problems with captive raised vs wild caught is the huge price gap. I was only trying to show an instance where I personally have seen that there is a difference in actual product that, as a buyer justifies paying more for. I also think that a lot of people don't really understand why they cost more. That is how I ended up with a wild caught mandarin. I didn't know what methods were used to catch him nor the efforts it takes to raise fry. So my natural reaction was that they were out of their minds charging that much for a captive raised mandarin. Fast forward a few years and I now have attempted to raise fry myself and have seen the difference in survival rates between wild caught and captive raised. I understand why I pay more and I am OK with it. I do also believe that if we as a hobby can get more support behind captive raised fish and breeding programs that we will see prices on captive fish fall.
 
I will always buy captive bred, if available. We the hobbyist are the ones that should push our lfs for captive bred when possible. Of course I also understand the undertaking of captive breeding of these fish. But to benefit this hobby and for it to be available for not only us, but the future hobbyist, we need to start making the push now.
I am just returning to this hobby after being away for 20 years. I am amazed at the advancements that have been made. I do appreciate all the people that have made reef keeping now possible. I feel supporting captive bred is the next step we should take.

Regarding justifying the cost.... that will come as lfs sell them........ the message will get out..... pay a little more but get healthier fish that increases the chance of survival. No one likes to see their hard earn money dead and floating.

We may pay more now but as captive breeding programs thrive.....the cost will adjust....and I for one am willing to pay little more now for the future of this beautiful interesting hobby to be available 20 years from now.
 
Captive...oh yes!!

This is my first first nano saltwater tank...it's the Mandarin goby that caught my eye. Then after research I discovered that it's not an easy fish to care for..at all! I don't know enough about them to train one by, no means! There is no way I'd want to starve the lil guy so for me captive bred all the way!! :-) The extra dosh to buy one that had an appetite for easy meals is well worth it!!!

Mandarin dreamin
 
I would defiantly buy all captive bred fish, all of my fish in my 34 solana are captive bred (3 Picasso clowns, orchid dotty back, neon goby)
 
I can only imagine how awesome it would be to be able to get CB anthias <3
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

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