Would you support marine fish "micro breeders?"

[uniquecorals]

I think one thing that would help people is to explain why CB are so much more expensive than WC. Maybe Scott can provide the reasoning behind it. I myself just can't figure out why the price is so much higher when you take into the fact that WC fish have to be transported somehow to the states which can't be cheap, even when done in bulk. Maybe I'm missing something but it would seem that fish reared in the states by reputable breeders would end up being cheaper in the long run than WC fish. Especially when you take into account the fact that there have been a few people on here that have had success with breeding. (the black ice snowflake thread comes to mind. He's had at least two broods in the last few weeks and has done well with survival rates).

Please note I'm not trying to stir the pot on this issue. I think it would be awesome as a hobby that we could someday purchase a majority of the fish we want through CBing. I'm just trying to understand the substantial cost increase. Having to pay three times the amount for a fish that's CB just doesn't compute but I would and do it.

Good question...

No you're not "stirring the pot", and if you are- that's a GOOD thing!

I think the main difference right now is the sheer cost involved, in labor, energy, materials, and other overhead when breeding these fishes. They require a lot of attention and effort on multiple areas (not just the brood stock, but their food, progeny, maintenance, etc.). When you have a larger facility with other overhead (employees, insurance, etc., etc.), it become a much less profitable operation. Not that you can't make a profit, but for right now, the expenses associated with small-scale (and probably "large scale",as well) fish propagation make these fishes a more expensive proposition. It's a bit different with corals, because some of the overhead associated with their propagation is significantly less than with fishes in many instances. High prices for propagated are often a result of demand, scarcity, and -gulp- marketing.

The value of captive-bred fishes has been discussed repeatedly here- not just in terms of quality, but in terms of the long-term sustainability of the hobby. In addition to responsible collection efforts, captive breeding just makes sense. One of the key factors in making captive-bred fishes more successful and pervasive in the hobby is demand...If there is more hobby demand, more outfits will get into the business, hopefully driving supply and quality up while lowering prices to levels that make a bit more sense. Some fishes will simply never be as cheap captive-bred as they are wild caught, and that's something that we will have to accept as a reality. However, the job of the vendors and breeders is to point out the obvious benefits of these animals...

Everyone, please feel free to elaborate on my simplistic points in this response as you see fit..

Thanks!

Scott

 

[Eienna]

Great idea eienna. Maybe post it on here as a downloadable PDF so anyone can spread it around?

Absolutely! I just put up a thread on the subject.
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/do...tive-breeding-poster-project.html#post1916653

 

[saltyphish]

Captive for me. When you think about it cb fish live longer with fewer complications than wild caught. You might have to buy multiple wild fish to live the length of time the cb fish lives making the cost not so far apart as believed. Not to mention a fish readily eating prepared foods is a blessing with some difficult species such as a mandarin.

 

[Aquaph8]

I 100% will buy captive bred where possible. I think we also need to help the breeders out before this point as well. For example, Karen does an amazing job with her angelfish breeding but the reality is it takes many attempts to end up with one or two fish this early in the game. We all want CB angels (especially the hard to get ones like Bandits) but we need to support the people making it happen. Right now Karen funds most of her projects with money raised from selling clownfish.

 

[Railcar79]

What everyone seems to forget there is that the cb mandys from Ora had high mortality rates. The captive diet didn't always work perfect, I do remember a disclaimer on them.

 

[Aquaph8]

What everyone seems to forget there is that the cb mandys from Ora had high mortality rates. The captive diet didn't always work perfect, I do remember a disclaimer on them.

People created that false hype that these Mandarins were going to be magic. Many thought these fish were going to allow them to break the rules of proper care for these "somewhat expert level" fish. Fact is they were still the same fish that wouldn't always eat prepared foods and if they did still needed the extra nutrition from hunting pods all day in an appropriate sized tank. I think when these guys were introduced people gave them the easier to keep stamp and that was never the case at all leading to bad feedback from buyers.

 

[Railcar79]

Captive bred mandys are good, but personally I don't think they are meant to go in modern reef tanks. I kept a pair for years in a 15 gal. I haven't ever had a problem with mandarins, they just don't do well with flow.

 

[rdevoe11]

absolutely...currently my only CB fish is an ORA gold stripe maroon clown, but if other fish I wanted were offered CB I would certainly pay the extra money, even if it meant waiting just a little longer to afford it.