Obsessed with fish
Well-Known Member
Would you ever buy wild caught stuff? I would NEVER, In my whole life buy wild caught stuff.
Your thoughts on wild caught stuff.
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Danroo
Well-Known Member
Its not easy to avoid wild caught stuff. Most invertebrates are wild caught. Same with the expansive fish, but there should be a law in place on this hobby for certain fish to be left alone in the wild if there is a chance of making them go extinct.
Mr_Knightley
2500 Club Member
I vote yes, not only because it supports thousands of poor families on the nations where these fish are collected, but also because it helps us build experience and an even bigger broodstock base for when imports will eventually be shut off (which is an inevitability). It also helps us understand the care of lesser-known fish so that breeders can know what to expect in the future. In my experience, owning nearly all wild caught fish since my beginning. The fish don't seem to care. There are, of course, a lot of fish that need to be left in the ocean (Tilefish, Deepwater stuff, boxfish, large tangs, etc.) but the majority of things I've kept in captivity have adapted well and are very personable. Fish are just so incredibly different from us mentally, that attempts to anthropomorphize them are futile. I'm sure they experience fear as they are caught, and some trouble along the line as a lot of exporters are less than careful. However I've rarely had a fish that refused to eat, or generally didn't adapt in an amazing way to the confines of a reef aquarium. Fish work different, in ways that we don't really understand, and I think if the majority of hobbyists can provide enough space and enough enrichment, wild fish would all but forget about their ocean days. Just my two cents.
angelsandtangs
Active Member
They have those laws in place already
ying yang
2500 Club Member
I voted yes for simple fact ,when I have talked just in general to the lfs staff/ owner/ guys who goto wholesalers to pick up tje fish fir their tanks and asked is this fish wild caught or aquaculture,answer was ummm ummm not sure then seemed like random answer was given,I guess if ordered a certain fish and asked them to find out the answer then they could get a definitive answer for me.
But by watching youtubers who go to the exporters in the countries where fish are collected and Interview the owners and staff there and the amount of fish that go through their systems to get shipped to the UK,USA,Europe and the likes is in the tens of thousands and articles written by certain people in the industry also,there's literally tons of fish that are wild caught so dont think we can get away with never buying a wild caught fish for our tanks,unless want something that is captive bred and breeds easily in captivity or places like biota that breed fish but we would only have a small variety of fish ( dont know exact numbers on how many different fish captive bred)
And I know for me to have one fish that many may have died on there travels to try get to my lfs,whether that's at the collection point,at the exporters, importers, wholesalers, lfs before we even get to choose which fish we want in our tanks.
Is that selfish of me or other hobbyists? In a way probably yes bit can also argue the point above mentioned about jobs/ money it creates in these poor countries ir understanding the fish on what takes to breed but can get into very deep conversations about whether best to leave fish alone in ocean or study them and dont wish to get involved as so complicated lol
But yeah I would knowingly buy a wild caught fish if it was healthy
But by watching youtubers who go to the exporters in the countries where fish are collected and Interview the owners and staff there and the amount of fish that go through their systems to get shipped to the UK,USA,Europe and the likes is in the tens of thousands and articles written by certain people in the industry also,there's literally tons of fish that are wild caught so dont think we can get away with never buying a wild caught fish for our tanks,unless want something that is captive bred and breeds easily in captivity or places like biota that breed fish but we would only have a small variety of fish ( dont know exact numbers on how many different fish captive bred)
And I know for me to have one fish that many may have died on there travels to try get to my lfs,whether that's at the collection point,at the exporters, importers, wholesalers, lfs before we even get to choose which fish we want in our tanks.
Is that selfish of me or other hobbyists? In a way probably yes bit can also argue the point above mentioned about jobs/ money it creates in these poor countries ir understanding the fish on what takes to breed but can get into very deep conversations about whether best to leave fish alone in ocean or study them and dont wish to get involved as so complicated lol
But yeah I would knowingly buy a wild caught fish if it was healthy
Captain Redbeard
Active Member
Unless you plan on a limited set of livestock, wild caught will likely be required to obtain many species. Our hobby is not at the level of captive breeding of some others due to obvious constraints, difficulties etc.
Buying captive bred is always nice, but there are just some species that is not possible with that the moment. However there are facilities and companies making rapid amazing progress in this field. Biota, etc.
Buying captive bred is always nice, but there are just some species that is not possible with that the moment. However there are facilities and companies making rapid amazing progress in this field. Biota, etc.
NoahLikesFish
2500 Club Member
i dont care about being on the right side of the you vs. them arguement, i really dont care as long as it isnt like bomb fishing or they just are like "lol its been in aquariums for months" when actually it was on a coral reef last tuesday
I would buy wild caught with no issues. I also legally/commercially collect fish and other marine life native to Florida and the Caribbean. Most wild caught fish (ones I catch included) are caught with sustainably in mind. Native collectors for most fish are more aware of populations than anyone and respect that. What is the point of collecting and just phasing out your income, as you over collected. There are also strict rules and regulation in place (in most places) to also keep people in check.
Our collection of wild fish is a drop in the bucket compared to commercial fishing for the food industry. For example, Hawaii does not permit collection of fish for the Aquarium Trade, yet collection for food is still allowed. Most tangs in Hawaii are unregulated, outside of a daily bag limit. This means no minimum size, maximum size or slot for the fish. With that in mind, think of it this way; a typical fisherman will take the largest fish they can get and take as many as the bag limit allows. By doing this, they are taking the breeding stock. Most aquarium collectors take the smaller fish, as it is easier/cheaper to collect/ship. While yes, they are taking the smaller fish, most smaller fish do not grow up to be adults. So which one is doing more harm?
In the end, wild caught fish collected sustainably is a nice income for locals and has minimal impact on the population. All while commercial fishing for food seems to cause more damage, as the breeding stock is typically collected.
While I see that either can be considered bad, the Aquarium trade has the least effect on the population of most fish. Now, if you do remove collection for the aquarium trade, it will benefit the population to an extent. My issue is the ban of aquarium collection of marine fish, but no changes to the collection for food. If they were smart, they would adjust both to allow for X number total harvested by either method each year. Not ban one and not changes the regulations for the other. This benefits all involved. Taxes, licenses, fish management, etc.
Just my .02 cents, as I guess I am a bad person, since I collect wild fish and other marine life as well.
Our collection of wild fish is a drop in the bucket compared to commercial fishing for the food industry. For example, Hawaii does not permit collection of fish for the Aquarium Trade, yet collection for food is still allowed. Most tangs in Hawaii are unregulated, outside of a daily bag limit. This means no minimum size, maximum size or slot for the fish. With that in mind, think of it this way; a typical fisherman will take the largest fish they can get and take as many as the bag limit allows. By doing this, they are taking the breeding stock. Most aquarium collectors take the smaller fish, as it is easier/cheaper to collect/ship. While yes, they are taking the smaller fish, most smaller fish do not grow up to be adults. So which one is doing more harm?
In the end, wild caught fish collected sustainably is a nice income for locals and has minimal impact on the population. All while commercial fishing for food seems to cause more damage, as the breeding stock is typically collected.
While I see that either can be considered bad, the Aquarium trade has the least effect on the population of most fish. Now, if you do remove collection for the aquarium trade, it will benefit the population to an extent. My issue is the ban of aquarium collection of marine fish, but no changes to the collection for food. If they were smart, they would adjust both to allow for X number total harvested by either method each year. Not ban one and not changes the regulations for the other. This benefits all involved. Taxes, licenses, fish management, etc.
Just my .02 cents, as I guess I am a bad person, since I collect wild fish and other marine life as well.
Lyss
Valuable Member
Agree, it's hard to avoid. What I do is try my best to seek out tank bred fish -- all my fish except for my tailspot blenny were captive bred. But even if you were able to find every fish you want as captive bred, you'd still run into inverts that are wild caught.
jfoahs04
Well-Known Member
Yes. Don't get me wrong, I mostly seek out aquacultured/captive-bred livestock (especially coral). But I won't pretend it's all for some moral/righteous reason. Generally, aquacultured coral does MUCH better in my tank than wild harvested/maricultured. Not liking the idea of removing coral from the ocean is definitely a factor, but there are very practical reasons too.
Fish are a different story. I still prefer captive bred where possible, but I'm less opposed to obtaining wild caught. Especially if they're not a threatened species (like the bangaii cardinal, domino damsel), or if they're hardy fish with higher survival rates in an aquarium. I do everything in my power to avoid delicate species and species that are known to be harvested by questionable means (i.e. cyanide). I'll still gladly pay double or triple the price for a captive-bred fish over its wild counterpart, and I hope that a combination of expanded captive breeding and a crackdown on unsustainable harvesting practices will help make this less of a debate. But until that point, I'll be a bit more discerning about where my wild caught fish come from.
Fish are a different story. I still prefer captive bred where possible, but I'm less opposed to obtaining wild caught. Especially if they're not a threatened species (like the bangaii cardinal, domino damsel), or if they're hardy fish with higher survival rates in an aquarium. I do everything in my power to avoid delicate species and species that are known to be harvested by questionable means (i.e. cyanide). I'll still gladly pay double or triple the price for a captive-bred fish over its wild counterpart, and I hope that a combination of expanded captive breeding and a crackdown on unsustainable harvesting practices will help make this less of a debate. But until that point, I'll be a bit more discerning about where my wild caught fish come from.
zheka757
2500 Club Member
My personal opinion.
Our hobby is small fraction of marine wildlife effect, I don't feel bad about anything coming out from ocean that goes into our aquarium, (as long as it gets acounted for, legal), Tourism in reef areas does way more damage to Reefs then our hoby, just one sample, As far as fish goes, they aloud to fish them for fun and kill them, but can't collect them for export (Hawaii) ...makes alot of sense! I think it's just a b.s.politics to me, nothing more.
Agein this is just my opinion
Our hobby is small fraction of marine wildlife effect, I don't feel bad about anything coming out from ocean that goes into our aquarium, (as long as it gets acounted for, legal), Tourism in reef areas does way more damage to Reefs then our hoby, just one sample, As far as fish goes, they aloud to fish them for fun and kill them, but can't collect them for export (Hawaii) ...makes alot of sense! I think it's just a b.s.politics to me, nothing more.
Agein this is just my opinion
SlugSnorter
2500 Club Member
If a fish comes in captive bred, Ill wait for captive bred stock to purchase the fish. If theres no captive lines, currently or planned, ill by wild.
SlugSnorter
2500 Club Member
they taste better
OP
OP
Obsessed with fish
Well-Known Member
83% of reefers dont care about the environment
Captain Redbeard
Active Member
are you implying that purchasing "wild caught" means an individual "doesnt care about the environment"?
correlation does not equal causation, you're making a blanket statement and extrapolating data you have no way of quantifying.
you think simply because something is captive bred it's "better" for the environment? Have you factored in carbon footprint of the operation producing these captive bred animals. Pollution. Transport. Chemical run off. Facility square footage taking up land etc. Define "care about the environment"...
HuduVudu
2500 Club Member
And yet every time that you go to eat fish or shrimp etc ... you are very likely eating wild caught stuff.
When I was in the Philippines I had a friend that would buy fish from the fisherman's nets for a few pesos, for his aquarium. In the west we are insulated from the realities of the things that we eat. I have a vegan friend from Mexico and she chuckles when a new vegan comes on the boards where she is at and thinks that the meat industry is going to shut down now that the person has gone vegan.
Puppy mills exist. Evil is present in this world, curiously no amount of efforts seem to be able to stamp it out. Sadly those efforts often become the evil that they are so desperately trying to stop.
Do what you think is right. Don't worry about what others are doing and try to be the change you want. I think that is a far better perscription for making things better than trying to feel better by small outward acts that will utimately be used for evil.
Mr. Mojo Rising
7500 Club Member
this goes along the lines of what I think. Us good intentioned reefers cause no where near as much damage as corporations dumping oil and waste into the water, not to mention all the nuclear testing done out in the oceans.... nah, we are not the bad ones.
The only thing I really dislike about wild caught fish is the way they catch them. I've read they use chemical bombs to knock fish out so they can catch them, but half the fish end up dying that way
