A real "LED X halide" thread, scientifically. LOL!

areefer01 · Jan 31, 2023

JCOLE said:
Yes! I guess that's the main thing here. A 400w Radium is one of the Cadillac of MH so compare that to a cadillac LED which is Radion. Your looking at 2 of the XR30s for the 400w Radium. That's a $2k cost compared to a $250 cost which I paid.

Fair enough - thanks for the context.

xabo · Jan 31, 2023

JCOLE said:
Yes! I guess that's the main thing here. A 400w Radium is one of the Cadillac of MH so compare that to a cadillac LED which is Radion. Your looking at 2 of the XR30s for the 400w Radium. That's a $2k cost compared to a $250 cost which I paid.

Again, it's the availability. If they want to sell Radions for $$$$ then that's cool as thats the free market. But don't take away everyone's choices to the point where if they want a Cadillac in lighting then they are taking out a second mortgage.

In the coming years we'll probably be having a similar conversation about the high powered V8s vs. the EVs.

oreo54 · Jan 31, 2023

areefer01 said:
Fair enough - thanks for the context.

I beg to differ.
Dimming, channels, wireless are all value added stuff you pay for.
As to photons..they are all the same so to speak..

Radium 20000k is mostly blue, green, and amber photons
Nothing special really...

Like above you really need to use say a Geisseman hybrid as aI used above.
Inc. dimmable t5 ballasts.

A wall timer is not equiv. to ramping and timers..

But that is all part of the need/ want of individuals

JCOLE · Jan 31, 2023

oreo54 said:
You can't compare " retail" to a flea market find.
400w mh ballast at BRS is $250.
At least when I put the bb vs mh/t5 I used commercial costs.
Anyways.

Flea Market?

JCOLE · Jan 31, 2023

xabo said:
In the coming years we'll probably be having a similar conversation about the high powered V8s vs. the EVs.

I am sure we will and if all you can find are Tesla's at high $$$ then you'll have 90% of people in the same boat.

xabo · Jan 31, 2023

JCOLE said:
I am sure we will and if all you can find are Tesla's at high $$$ then you'll have 90% of people in the same boat.

Think I'll be keeping my Twin Turbo V12.........

JCOLE · Jan 31, 2023

oreo54 said:
I beg to differ.
Dimming, channels, wireless are all value added stuff you pay for.
As to photons..they are all the same so to speak..

Radium 20000k is mostly blue, green, and amber photons
Nothing special really...

Like above you really need to use say a Geisseman hybrid as aI used above.
Inc. dimmable t5 ballasts.

A wall timer is not equiv. to ramping and timers..

But that is all part of the need/ want of individuals

Ah...all that added $$$$ value that means absolutely nothing to the corals well being.

Are you really saying that the gold standard in Acropora lighting is "nothing special really?"

Thales · Jan 31, 2023

JCOLE said:
Ah...all that added $$$$ value that means absolutely nothing to the corals well being.

All that matters is the corals well being?

JCOLE said:
Are you really saying that the gold standard in Acropora lighting is "nothing special really?"

Who voted the Radium the gold standard in Acropora lighting? And what are the details of that standard?

BurgerFish · Jan 31, 2023

Spare time said:
It isn't that big of a spectrum shift. Some guy

But do you have a data? "Some guy" is not a valuable source.

My tank with 3.5-4y led turned into algae factory and all corals stop growing (some completely disappeared). The problem was resolved simple by changing the light.

Spare time said:
Disco ball effect depends on the LED unit and is not in all LED lights, same with shadowing and shimmer.

Can you give me a name of the LED that not expensive, not noisy, doesn't have a shadowing or disco ball effect with 1 fixture. Or something close to it.

oreo54 · Jan 31, 2023

JCOLE said:
Ah...all that added $$$$ value that means absolutely nothing to the corals well being.

Are you really saying that the gold standard in Acropora lighting is "nothing special really?"

I thought it was 6500k iwasakis?
Anyways not sure how it got to be the gold standard except by winning by attrition.

I can't speak for the double ended Radium ... I had the 250w's SE Radiums ... the color is great ... the growth is pretty good ... but now that I have gone back to a 250W HQI ... I love the Phoenix bulbs far more ... and the growth under them is just astonishing. No need for actinic supplement with them ... the colors of the corals are awesome!
,.......... ...
On to the radium. Coloring is GREAT, but growth is much slower than when using a phonex 14k. IME the radium provides more color "pop", and the coloring of individual corals is much more distinctive. It also doesn't wash out the tank like a phoenix does.

So if you want okay coloring with good growth go with a phoenix 14k. If you want outstanding coloring with slower growth go with a radium.

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/217648-radium-vs-phoenix/

Historically I could probably find dozens of like posts including old ones pretty much proving the Hamilton 20 and radium " we're" the same bulb.

Radium vs Hamilton 20k spectrum

Hi Dana and others, So my tank was featured on a Hamilton web page which ended up giving me a chance to try out their 20k MH 250w bulbs. I used the spectrometer that Dana had suggested to me, to compare the rightly famous Radium 250w and the Hamilton. Using a hydroponic no-name electronic...

www.reef2reef.com

areefer01 · Jan 31, 2023

oreo54 said:
I beg to differ.
Dimming, channels, wireless are all value added stuff you pay for.
As to photons..they are all the same so to speak..

Radium 20000k is mostly blue, green, and amber photons
Nothing special really...

Like above you really need to use say a Geisseman hybrid as aI used above.
Inc. dimmable t5 ballasts.

A wall timer is not equiv. to ramping and timers..

But that is all part of the need/ want of individuals

I was thanking him for the clarity behind his reasoning. Important in a conversation such as this. Their opinion or thought process is that they are comparing to the best of, or a known top of the line product. They are different by design but accepted by many to be the best. It doesn't matter if I agree with the statement but I understand their point.

Please know that my post in this thread are all similar - I don't care what people run and we should all be thankful for options. But to be an active participant I have to be open to what others have to say. Hopefully this makes sense.

oreo54 · Jan 31, 2023

BurgerFish said:
But do you have a data? "Some guy" is not a valuable source.

My tank with 3.5-4y led turned into algae factory and all corals stop growing (some completely disappeared). The problem was resolved simple by changing the light.

That could have multiple causes.
Correlation is not causation.
Which lights, was the par the same ect ect..
No need to really answer.
If the par was different you could have either under driven or over driven the corals thus favoring algae
Your new lights were a change beneficial to a new balance leading to stability.
Just guessing
Stuff like that happens in fw all the time.

BurgerFish said:
Can you give me a name of the LED that not expensive, not noisy, doesn't have a shadowing or disco ball effect with 1 fixture. Or something close to it.

Just use t5....

See that CAN be made w/ LEDs. That it isn't has nothing to do w LEDs per se, just implementation..
Easy enough to build.

Here is THE main issue though no factory built led diodes
with the "correct" phosphors ..but 1

KYOCERA Develops World’s First Full-Spectrum LED Aquarium Lighting | Nyheter | KYOCERA Norway

norway.kyocera.com

Can't vouch for shadows but mh's s also shadow some.

I hear Phillips would cover all but cost.

JCOLE · Jan 31, 2023

Thales said:
All that matters is the corals well being?

Who voted the Radium the gold standard in Acropora lighting? And what are the details of that standard?

Yes. Shouldn't everything we do be for the corals well being?

Light bulb weekly. Come on you know this....

areefer01 · Jan 31, 2023

oreo54 said:
Here is THE main issue though no factory built led diodes
with the "correct" phosphors ..but 1

KYOCERA Develops World’s First Full-Spectrum LED Aquarium Lighting | Nyheter | KYOCERA Norway

norway.kyocera.com

Can't vouch for shadows but mh's s also shadow some.

That light isn't available to the US market or at least wasn't based on my earlier searches. One could buy it in Japan of course.

oreo54 said:
I hear Phillips would cover all but cost.

I seem to recall that Luc / Phillips did an actual study of the Gen 2 and coral growth.

JCOLE · Jan 31, 2023

areefer01 said:
I was thanking him for the clarity behind his reasoning. Important in a conversation such as this. Their opinion or thought process is that they are comparing to the best of, or a known top of the line product. They are different by design but accepted by many to be the best. It doesn't matter if I agree with the statement but I understand their point.

Please know that my post in this thread are all similar - I don't care what people run and we should all be thankful for options. But to be an active participant I have to be open to what others have to say. Hopefully this makes sense.

Thank you. I actually enjoy talking and seeing both sides. Unfortunately, there are some that only see it one way.

JCOLE · Jan 31, 2023

oreo54 said:
That could have multiple causes.
Correlation is not causation.
Which lights, was the par the same ect ect..
No need to really answer.
If the par was different you could have either under driven or over driven the corals thus favoring algae
Your new lights were a change beneficial to a new balance leading to stability.
Just guessing
Stuff like that happens in fw all the time.

Just use t5....

See that CAN be made w/ LEDs. That it isn't has nothing to do w LEDs per se, just implementation..
Easy enough to build.

Here is THE main issue though no factory built led diodes
with the "correct" phosphors ..but 1

KYOCERA Develops World’s First Full-Spectrum LED Aquarium Lighting | Nyheter | KYOCERA Norway

norway.kyocera.com

Can't vouch for shadows but mh's s also shadow some.

I hear Phillips would cover all but cost.

LEDs are great. Just add T5s.....LOL

oreo54 · Jan 31, 2023

JCOLE said:
LEDs are great. Just add T5s.....LOL

Halides are great just add LEDs...

Sorry couldn't resist.
Halides are great just add t5's

To be honest all I see is subjective choices and selective compromises
No perfect tech
Led,t5, mh...

JCOLE · Jan 31, 2023

oreo54 said:
Halides are great just add LEDs...
Sorry couldn't resist.
Halides are great just add t5's

You just don't get it do you?

oreo54 · Jan 31, 2023

JCOLE said:
You just don't get it do you?

Maybe you missed my addition above?
Reefbums Peninsula tank run by Mitras only. Spectrum tailored to the radium by telegram.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

areefer01 · Jan 31, 2023

oreo54 said:
Maybe you missed my addition above?
Reefbums Peninsula tank run by Mitras only. Spectrum tailored to the radium by telegram.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com