Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

[Entz]

I can't really give you an exact timeframe, but mine were eaten or got pulled off the spots within a week. Personally i think the longer the better up to 2 weeks. Additionally, my chaeto was straight from my fuge which is absolutely full of pods, if you're just getting someone's trimmings it may not have the same affect, but i can't tell you either way with absolute certainty.

I wonder if shading also helps a bit in that regard. Do you find that it pops up in other places or is just gone?

 

[Jameseywayney]

I wonder if shading also helps a bit in that regard. Do you find that it pops up in other places or is just gone?

I agree the shade might help, but i had sections that i could see through the chaeto to the sand bed and it still dissapeared. It did not pop up in other places and has not come back and its been over 2 weeks.

 

[Entz]

I agree the shade might help, but i had sections that i could see through the chaeto to the sand bed and it still dissapeared. It did not pop up in other places and has not come back and its been over 2 weeks.

That is fantastic.

 

[Jameseywayney]

That is fantastic.

Here is a photo of one of the bad areas during treatment. You can see the pretty thick patches of brown that is barely covered by the chaeto. The second is photo weeks after.

 

[Entz]

Wow that is a huge difference

 

[Idoc]

The AmScope M150c is a very good choice and pretty cheap for what it offers.

I think this is the one i have and it gives beautiful images.

 

[Victoria M]

From the back pane of the aquarium.

From the rocks.
What do you think? I think dinos are declining and other stuff is growing.

 

[dwest]

From the back pane of the aquarium.

From the rocks.
What do you think? I think dinos are declining and other stuff is growing.

Definitely lots of other stuff. That’s good. I’m guessing the round things were moving?

 

[Victoria M]

Definitely lots of other stuff. That’s good. I’m guessing the round things were moving?

Oh yes. And they were definitely dinos. The higher resolution pictures did not turn out.

 

[taricha]

I can't really give you an exact timeframe, but mine were eaten or got pulled off the spots within a week. Personally i think the longer the better up to 2 weeks. Additionally, my chaeto was straight from my fuge which is absolutely full of pods,

So glad the chaeto blob works for others. Of all the methods, this is actually the one that I used and that worked reliably for me multiple times.

-I am a firm believer that putting chaeto blobs on top works wonders, my tang and angels ate the chaeto winthin the week, but the dinos never came back underneath. I think chaeto either gives a shelter for pods (which i have first hand seen pods eat mass amounts of dinos) or there is some type of chemical warefare going on between chaeto and dinos. I know its a long shot, but is it possible that the chaeto poops fight the dinos?

my chaeto was full of amphipods as well. I feel it's likely important.
chaeto really doesn't put out much in terms of chemicals it exudes. every other algae puts out way more than it does. It is likely that chaeto brings its own bacterial community which may well disrupt the community the dinos relied on. These are the best theories I have on why it may work. Amphidinium just aren't bothered by that low level of shade.

- I am wondering if silicates harm dinos, versus diatoms competing against dinos.

I have also been dosing silicates regularly without seeing a diatom bloom. I agree something else has to be at work with the silicates besides causing diatoms.

This may seem weird but ought to be expected. Since we start with a dino bloom, the dinos exponentially grow until they run out of something. So once our dino bloom plateaus out, then we know something important has been depleted.
Then add Si to the mix. The diatoms can't have a big bloom because they likely need the same things the dinos have already depleted. But now there's more than one exponential grower on the block and any trickle of the scarce resource may now be taken up by diatoms, so the dinos don't get all of it.

 

[Neoalchemist]

So glad the chaeto blob works for others. Of all the methods, this is actually the one that I used and that worked reliably for me multiple times.

my chaeto was full of amphipods as well. I feel it's likely important.
chaeto really doesn't put out much in terms of chemicals it exudes. every other algae puts out way more than it does. It is likely that chaeto brings its own bacterial community which may well disrupt the community the dinos relied on. These are the best theories I have on why it may work. Amphidinium just aren't bothered by that low level of shade.





This may seem weird but ought to be expected. Since we start with a dino bloom, the dinos exponentially grow until they run out of something. So once our dino bloom plateaus out, then we know something important has been depleted.
Then add Si to the mix. The diatoms can't have a big bloom because they likely need the same things the dinos have already depleted. But now there's more than one exponential grower on the block and any trickle of the scarce resource may now be taken up by diatoms, so the dinos don't get all of it.

Ostreopsis happily grew on my cheato and eventually nearly wiped it out. I saved what was left. Which was less than a golf ball sized piece. I suspected the lack of nutrients was what was killing the cheato so I re- introduced it once nutrients were back and dinos were on the run. By then I had proro and amph. And once re-introduced cheato grew well.
When I started dosing silicates I resumed water changes so as not to limit my potential diatom bloom. And in my case I did see a strong bloom which was easily controllable by adjusting the amount of Si dosed. So I completely agree that a resource limitation is why many don't see a thorough diatoms bloom.
I never really stopped water changes, and don't agree with that particular step.
A) I wanted the tank to stay the course on normal routine and did not want to lose water changes which are the best tool we have.
B) the resource limitation could(more likely than not) slow down the competitors needed to push out the dinos.
C) manual export, I didn't find filtering out dinos and replacing the water to be effective. Even with a new 5 micron filter sock there were plenty of dinos coagulating in the siphoned water bucket. I refused to pour those dinos back into the tank.

 

[taricha]

Ostreopsis happily grew on my cheato and eventually nearly wiped it out. I saved what was left. Which was less than a golf ball sized piece.

This is another reason why large cell amphidinium needs to be treated separately from the other dinos.
Ostreopsis, prorocentrum, coolia, gambierdiscus etc are epiphytes on macroalgae. That is where they are most comfortable and they are perfectly adapted to it. Amphidinium however is never found in that niche. And seems to do very poorly in close proximity to algae blobs.

 

[David_Cool]

Well I gave DinoX a shot but had no luck. it basically just killed off my green hair algae and allowed a massive amount of cyano to grow over top of the dinos on the sand. it never really affected the dinos in any way. I'm going to keep dosing it but go back to dosing si and PO4 too, even though it says not to dose anything. It does specify to dose dinoX after the lights are out, but I think that this is for dinos that go into the water column at night and not down into the sand. I'm going to try applying it to my tank after the dinos all come out for the day instead of right before they retreat.

 

[JonJonJonJon]

Been dealing with this myself for a while now. Considering removing my sand bed at this point when I have to move the tank in a few weeks.

If I replaced all the sand during the move, would I be good or end up in the same situation with new sand?

 

[David_Cool]

Been dealing with this myself for a while now. Considering removing my sand bed at this point when I have to move the tank in a few weeks.

If I replaced all the sand during the move, would I be good or end up in the same situation with new sand?

That's my next step. The only thing keeping me from doing it now are my narcissus snails, but my love for them only goes so far.

 

[JonJonJonJon]

That's my next step. The only thing keeping me from doing it now are my narcissus snails, but my love for them only goes so far.

Same with mine and the pistol shrimp

 

[Neoalchemist]

Been dealing with this myself for a while now. Considering removing my sand bed at this point when I have to move the tank in a few weeks.

If I replaced all the sand during the move, would I be good or end up in the same situation with new sand?

If the underlying issue (usually nutrient limitation) isnt corrected. You will more likely than not develop another strain of dinos in place of the amphidimium.
Search for the rip clean thread. During a move this might be the best method for you. It's basically a complete tear down and deep clean.
Just make sure the water after that point always has healthy nutrient levels going forward and you will likely succeed.

 

[JonJonJonJon]

If the underlying issue (usually nutrient limitation) isnt corrected. You will more likely than not develop another strain of dinos in place of the amphidimium.
Search for the rip clean thread. During a move this might be the best method for you. It's basically a complete tear down and deep clean.
Just make sure the water after that point always has healthy nutrient levels going forward and you will likely succeed.

I've struggled with low phosphate in the tank. Still tests 0 (Hanna Checker) even after dosing NeoPhos and heavy feedings, but tank is now overrun with hair algae and the dinos. Seems like the tank has plenty of phosphate. Do I still need to get to detectable levels on the test?

 

[Neoalchemist]

I've struggled with low phosphate in the tank. Still tests 0 (Hanna Checker) even after dosing NeoPhos and heavy feedings, but tank is now overrun with hair algae and the dinos. Seems like the tank has plenty of phosphate. Do I still need to get to detectable levels on the test?

The original Hanna checker or the ULR?

 

[JonJonJonJon]

The original Hanna checker or the ULR?

The low range phosphate checker, HI713.