Another STUPID Cyano Thread

[specialk]

Hey All

Trying to figure out why all of a sudden I am having a nasty red slime / cyano outbreak.

125 gal tank (145 total in system)
1 tang, 2 clowns, filefish, 2 chromis, 2 other smaller fish
primarily sps dominant
No chaeto in sump
Water changes @10-15% every 2 weeks
P04 - 0.02
Na3 - 0.25

** Cyano comes back strong even 4 to 5 days after the water change!

Had a power outage that caused some issues in my tank during a time I was away. Caused some issues and ever since then (this was about 2 months ago)
I have been trying to get things back on track

My alk has been swinging as I have been trying to reel my numbers back in and keep them stable. So right now I am trying to get alk consistent and back to 8.0. It was there and steady and tank looked great. For the last month it has been bouncing all over and that is causing my corals to look stressed and some bleaching to even occur -- although not sure if this is because the alk or cyano/slime?

Anyways, all I feed is a pinch is some new life spectrum food for the fish once a day, and I do not over feed. I used to have chaeto in the sump, BUT took it out about 6 to 7 months ago, as my system turned into ULNS and the sps were not doing well. Once I took the chaeto out (got the p04 and nitrate up a bit) and just did the nutrieint export with the water changes every 2 weeks ... the tank thrived.

But not sure why it is breaking out like this now ..? Could not running the light and the fuge down below all of a sudden have something to do with it? Is it the # swings that may cause it?

Looking for anything here to help...

 

[wattson]

Raise No3,,even if you have to dose it..do a search on what to use and how to it,,plenty of info on the forum about dosing Nitrate

 

[brandon429]

lets see a cross section pic of the sandbed

micro life stresses or dies in it, and it becomes a production and feeding facility for cyano. it can even if they're not dead, but with what you described im simply curious to see pigmentation evident in the cross section pics of the sandbed if any. its the sole suspect till eliminated. there is no fancy chemistry at play in most cyano tanks, param issues, its a detritus or organics issue in the vast majority of cyano threads that actually post cure shots/after pics of no invasion. Ive also seen bb cyano tanks that still had detritus-laden rocks, we swished them mid tank and a huge mixed cloud came off...same feed.

fix that base clouding -then- do all the grazer and light tuning and N and P balancing, don't do those with detritus stores in place is my offer. don't begin with a doser, those don't address pent up waste if applicable. our sand rinse thread is 20 pages of cyano challenges and about 3 times a basic sand rinsing didn't fix it.

 

[jsker]

Looking for anything here to help...

I have been doing the battle for sometime now and trying everything not to use the slime removers. This last time I tried dosing H2O2 and that had a slight effect of weakening the cyano but not the results I have been looking for. My corals were not happy either. I just finished a 4 day treatment with a remover with the lights out for 3 days of the treatment, the tank is the cleanest it has been in a year. I stop dosing the H2O2 during the treatment, then dosed the H2O2 for two days afterwards then stopped. Now I will have to bring the tank back to life with the nutrients.

As @wattson suggested there is a imbalance of nutrients, usually PO4's being very high and a carbon source that feeds cyano. My carbon source is probably Co2 since my tank is in my office and I notice when I am in the office working a lot the PH drops below 7.8 at some points. This is my story and I hope it helps

 

[sfin52]

It's not stupid thread. Every tank is different and has it's own personality. I'm sure you tried everything and now reaching out for help. Nothing wrong with that .

 

[specialk]

lets see a cross section pic of the sandbed

micro life stresses or dies in it, and it becomes a production and feeding facility for cyano. it can even if they're not dead, but with what you described im simply curious to see pigmentation evident in the cross section pics of the sandbed if any. its the sole suspect till eliminated. there is no fancy chemistry at play in most cyano tanks, param issues, its a detritus or organics issue in the vast majority of cyano threads that actually post cure shots/after pics of no invasion. Ive also seen bb cyano tanks that still had detritus-laden rocks, we swished them mid tank and a huge mixed cloud came off...same feed.

fix that base clouding -then- do all the grazer and light tuning and N and P balancing, don't do those with detritus stores in place is my offer. don't begin with a doser, those don't address pent up waste if applicable. our sand rinse thread is 20 pages of cyano challenges and about 3 times a basic sand rinsing didn't fix it.

Just left to run an errand or two, and lights will be out when I am back. I will FOR SURE post a pic right away tomm and tag you. I def will be asking more questions on this as I look to get this taken care of right away ... have a frag swap saturday with some new additions coming --- dont want them messed up

 

[specialk]

I have been doing the battle for sometime now and trying everything not to use the slime removers. This last time I tried dosing H2O2 and that had a slight effect of weakening the cyano but not the results I have been looking for. My corals were not happy either. I just finished a 4 day treatment with a remover with the lights out for 3 days of the treatment, the tank is the cleanest it has been in a year. I stop dosing the H2O2 during the treatment, then dosed the H2O2 for two days afterwards then stopped. Now I will have to bring the tank back to life with the nutrients.

As @wattson suggested there is a imbalance of nutrients, usually PO4's being very high and a carbon source that feeds cyano. My carbon source is probably Co2 since my tank is in my office and I notice when I am in the office working a lot the PH drops below 7.8 at some points. This is my story and I hope it helps

I also previously did not have carbon in there .. about 2 to 3 weeks ago I added some to the sump. Not sure if that is making it worse, and if I should remove that. I added that thinking I needed more nutrient export and to add that as well as POSSIBLY some gfo to lower that p04

 

[specialk]

It's not stupid thread. Every tank is different and has it's own personality. I'm sure you tried everything and now reaching out for help. Nothing wrong with that .

Appreciate that amigo ... always always learning in this hobby ... always. No matter how many years we have been in it.

 

[jsker]

I also previously did not have carbon in there .. about 2 to 3 weeks ago I added some to the sump. Not sure if that is making it worse, and if I should remove that. I added that thinking I needed more nutrient export and to add that as well as POSSIBLY some gfo to lower that p04

I would not be to concerned with the nitrates but yes getting the PO4's down to .03 ish would be a good place to start.

 

[specialk]

I have been doing the battle for sometime now and trying everything not to use the slime removers. This last time I tried dosing H2O2 and that had a slight effect of weakening the cyano but not the results I have been looking for. My corals were not happy either. I just finished a 4 day treatment with a remover with the lights out for 3 days of the treatment, the tank is the cleanest it has been in a year. I stop dosing the H2O2 during the treatment, then dosed the H2O2 for two days afterwards then stopped. Now I will have to bring the tank back to life with the nutrients.

As @wattson suggested there is a imbalance of nutrients, usually PO4's being very high and a carbon source that feeds cyano. My carbon source is probably Co2 since my tank is in my office and I notice when I am in the office working a lot the PH drops below 7.8 at some points. This is my story and I hope it helps

By the way ...what remover did you use?

 

[specialk]

I would not be to concerned with the nitrates but yes getting the PO4's down to .03 ish would be a good place to start.

Well my po4 tested, with the hanna checker, at 0.02

 

[jsker]

By the way ...what remover did you use?

Ultra life, red slime remover. No water change afterwords

Well my po4 tested, with the hanna checker, at 0.02

Depending on the test kit, cyano can give a lower reading then what it really is. Cyano is like a phosphate sponge. I switched to a Hanna ultra low phosphorus checker to the a real reading and was surprised, when I took my readings of how high they were over red sea.

 

[specialk]

Ultra life, red slime remover. No water change afterwords


Depending on the test kit, cyano can give a lower reading then what it really is. Cyano is like a phosphate sponge. I switched to a Hanna ultra low phosphorus checker to the a real reading and was surprised, when I took my readings of how high they were over red sea.

I should have mentioned I have the Ultra low one .... BUT you are right there is no doubt it is higher then the reading i am getting. Tank visual results show that

 

[specialk]

lets see a cross section pic of the sandbed

micro life stresses or dies in it, and it becomes a production and feeding facility for cyano. it can even if they're not dead, but with what you described im simply curious to see pigmentation evident in the cross section pics of the sandbed if any. its the sole suspect till eliminated. there is no fancy chemistry at play in most cyano tanks, param issues, its a detritus or organics issue in the vast majority of cyano threads that actually post cure shots/after pics of no invasion. Ive also seen bb cyano tanks that still had detritus-laden rocks, we swished them mid tank and a huge mixed cloud came off...same feed.

fix that base clouding -then- do all the grazer and light tuning and N and P balancing, don't do those with detritus stores in place is my offer. don't begin with a doser, those don't address pent up waste if applicable. our sand rinse thread is 20 pages of cyano challenges and about 3 times a basic sand rinsing didn't fix it.

Also come to think of it .. when I started getting back on track (when I returned from being away) with consistent bi-weekly water changes, I was sifting the sand bed with my water removing hose/sane cleaner .. could that have stirred things up and caused the issue?

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

nano reefers are the spoiled ones who can take apart their whole reefs, clean them, and rearrange a non invaded tank wo meds...ya'lls big tanks take some work so its less common for people to deep clean them, but the outcome is still the same...all scalable biology.
we still have a few examples there of big tanks being worked but to save a huge read this is the general takeaway:

at any time products like chemiclean or mb7 or actions like lighting adjustment downing whites and upping blues can work, along with N and P alterations to suppress cyano growth and make it stop. those actions/products are steady-state interrupters, they don't really ever remove mass. If they work, then the target mass dies in the system and hopefully doesn't recirc to support more target mass...the true take apart rinsing we show repeatedly there is simply removing every bit of feed, clouding waste that we could see upon disturbance, along with the actual target. there's still little bits of cyano left in the pocketing on the rocks too, but at least that massive sand bed could be made totally clear as we show in the thread, able to reach in, grab sand, drop it, nothing clouds.

you can't do that right now or it will cloud, so there's room for sandbed work if you want. **the coolest trick we distilled for working on big tanks, to save having to do 2x cleaning runs, is to potentially take out the entire sandbed all at once, and not put one back until the cyano abates

the basis of that move is you can remove the sand without cycling, we show how, and you would use jetted saltwater to rinse and evacuate the rocks so they're dislodged of the waste I could surely currently shake out of them mid tank.

You'd re assemble a perfectly clean tank, and spend the next couple weeks simply siphoning light regrowths off the rocks, guide it out, no meds, and if its not on the rocks now this part w go fast because that's not its locus.

After the tank is sustained clean, then rinse a new sandbed into perfection so that you can dump it in, around the rocks vs under it, and that wont cause any probs they're simply rinsed sand grains. My way is a lot of work, but try and find cyano challenge threads actually posting cure follow ups, its like pulling teeth. They're all 20 page word battles about chemistry. we fix tanks in that thread because physical cleaning is the best form of cyano control ever found/

 

[specialk]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

nano reefers are the spoiled ones who can take apart their whole reefs, clean them, and rearrange a non invaded tank wo meds...ya'lls big tanks take some work so its less common for people to deep clean them, but the outcome is still the same...all scalable biology.
we still have a few examples there of big tanks being worked but to save a huge read this is the general takeaway:

at any time products like chemiclean or mb7 or actions like lighting adjustment downing whites and upping blues can work, along with N and P alterations to suppress cyano growth and make it stop. those actions/products are steady-state interrupters, they don't really ever remove mass. If they work, then the target mass dies in the system and hopefully doesn't recirc to support more target mass...the true take apart rinsing we show repeatedly there is simply removing every bit of feed, clouding waste that we could see upon disturbance, along with the actual target. there's still little bits of cyano left in the pocketing on the rocks too, but at least that massive sand bed could be made totally clear as we show in the thread, able to reach in, grab sand, drop it, nothing clouds.

you can't do that right now or it will cloud, so there's room for sandbed work if you want. **the coolest trick we distilled for working on big tanks, to save having to do 2x cleaning runs, is to potentially take out the entire sandbed all at once, and not put one back until the cyano abates

the basis of that move is you can remove the sand without cycling, we show how, and you would use jetted saltwater to rinse and evacuate the rocks so they're dislodged of the waste I could surely currently shake out of them mid tank.

You'd re assemble a perfectly clean tank, and spend the next couple weeks simply siphoning light regrowths off the rocks, guide it out, no meds, and if its not on the rocks now this part w go fast because that's not its locus.

After the tank is sustained clean, then rinse a new sandbed into perfection so that you can dump it in, around the rocks vs under it, and that wont cause any probs they're simply rinsed sand grains. My way is a lot of work, but try and find cyano challenge threads actually posting cure follow ups, its like pulling teeth. They're all 20 page word battles about chemistry. we fix tanks in that thread because physical cleaning is the best form of cyano control ever found/

This is great stuff. Really fantastic. Thank you a ton.

Now... some interesting things about my situation that may make this a very easy decision, and one in which I will still enlist your help and have some questions I am sure.

* I am due to move out of my current place at the LATEST, May 1.

* Probably will be moving out before that, as I work for FEMA and am going to be heading south for a few months. I will get that "go" for that anywhere between 2 weeks from now, to 3 months from now. But it is happening and the tank was going to have to come down

* I have a fellow reefer (he knows his stuff) that is going to set up a frag tank and babysit the frags for me. (Not setting up a big tank until I get into my permanent location)

So ... that tank was due to come down. Am I better off, next water change (or whenever you think it should be done -- assuming asap) start taking that sand out of the tank to get rid of that nasty problem.... just go bare bottom for the remaining time I am here? Just remove it all? Seeing as this will only help me and save me time for when the time comes and I do have to pack up and get moving for real, I will have less to do.

As you can see, yes your way is a lot of work .. but i am going to be doing a lot of work anyways, so mind as well start the process if it is going to save things.

ALSO ... can my sps still thrive in a tank with cyno as long as the #s are stable .. or is cyno an sps killer? I am NOT wanting to lose those.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Cyano mainly consumes no3. It can also derive Po4 from organic and inorganic phosphates.

If water changes are fueling the outbreak , how old is the salt and is it a probiotic?

 

[brandon429]

Gotta see tank pic real quick
One glance at rock porosity and loading + visual of fish loading = can assess skip cycle options

 

[Star reefer3]

I would use boyd chemi clean works like a charm and had no adverse side effects

 

[specialk]

Cyano mainly consumes no3. It can also derive Po4 from organic and inorganic phosphates.

If water changes are fueling the outbreak , how old is the salt and is it a probiotic?

I use red sea salt .. it is not old as I buy it new every time I am due for a water change