Apex 2016 salinity disappointment AGAIN !!!!!

[Jay Z]

I love mine. It reliably tells me 3 things all the time.

1. I have water in my tank
2. I have micro bubbles in my sump
3. They plug fell out again.

I can honestly rely on my salinity probe to make me aware of all 3 of these items.

Keeps me from walking down stairs to make sure my sump has water in it.

 

[jd-woodlands]

just had mine flake out after a water change and was stuck around 40... gave it a quick light brushing with a soft toothbrush and back to normal values. I've calibrated it using neptune solution, then check against freshly calibrated hanna tester. Then use the temperature adjustment values to dial it it to match the Hanna... have had it spot on for a few weeks now without any issues. Salinity goes up and down with tank temperature but that is expected.

 

[joekool]

I liked your article, BTW. The question to me is - 'is the apex salinity monitor the best option?' My answer is 'no' - because of my personal experience. I want a piece of equipment that is more 'set it and forget it'. I dont mind cleaning something every now and then - but (and there are no micro bubbles in my tank - that I'm aware of) - this monitor would be fine one minute then lets say read from 35 to 58. Then (without doing anything) drop back to 35. There was no change in wiring, etc etc - and no removal of bubbles, etc.

I also agree with you - that - the 'need' for constant salinity monitoring seems 'overblown' - unless one has an ATO that could possibly dump a LOT of water into the tank. For mine (a 140 gallon system) - the most water that could 'accidentally drain in' is about 4 gallons - so I just started ignoring the salinity - except when I do water changes (and I use a refractometer).

Just a question is you temperature very stable or does it change?
In my big system 1 degree low is almost .5ppt change.
If you have the system dialed in at say 77 degrees and 35ppt then your tank goes to 79 during the day the back down at night you will possibly see enough difference to question your probe.

 

[joekool]

just had mine flake out after a water change and was stuck around 40... gave it a quick light brushing with a soft toothbrush and back to normal values. I've calibrated it using neptune solution, then check against freshly calibrated hanna tester. Then use the temperature adjustment values to dial it it to match the Hanna... have had it spot on for a few weeks now without any issues. Salinity goes up and down with tank temperature but that is expected.

Perfect.

 

[joekool]

just had mine flake out after a water change and was stuck around 40... gave it a quick light brushing with a soft toothbrush and back to normal values. I've calibrated it using neptune solution, then check against freshly calibrated hanna tester. Then use the temperature adjustment values to dial it it to match the Hanna... have had it spot on for a few weeks now without any issues. Salinity goes up and down with tank temperature but that is expected.

You didn’t happen to see the video I did three or four weeks ago about this subject did you

 

[joekool]

While im glad thru these suggestions to see my salinity get truer to actual, was this the design in which we have to place our probes sideways or upside down?? is this technology ??? JUST SAYING

You may be able to get a piece of plastic mesh filter sock and cut a piece off and put it around the tip your probe it’ll block the bubbles. Make it big enough so it’s not tight up to the side of the probe say like a balloon. Try this and get back to us.

 

[Silver14SS]

3. They plug fell out again.

That was my biggest annoyance with the Apex salinity probe, maybe the next version will use BNC or something more secure than the existing solution.

 

[joekool]

Years ago when I bought one of these I was excited about having a third way to monitor the ATO (the other two is time on, and high water level warning) but this salt probe turned out to be totally worthless. Every day when my T5 lights come on it drops to about 30, when they shut off it comes up to 36.

I worked with Neptune to fix this, I removed everything lighting related from the stand and canopy and placed it on an extension cord in another room, but the only thing that could fix the issue was plugging the lights into another outlet. Any Apex bar they are plugged into cause the issue. The tank is grounded (by probe right next to the salinity sensor), the case of the lights is grounded, the tank is on a GFCI (or rather two of them) so I'm sure there is some interference traveling from the APEX power bar to the Salinity module. Neptune talks about how their sensors are better because they are isolated, but I don't see that as possible given my experience.

I need my apex to control my lights because incase of chiller failure it will turn them off. I refuse to remove this safety feature in order to get a salt probe to work. Because I would not make this change Neptune blamed the problem on my equipment and closed the case.

Whiskey

That sucks. Did they ever recommend using wire shielding on the salinity probe wire?

 

[jd-woodlands]

Just a question is you temperature very stable or does it change?
In my big system 1 degree low is almost .5ppt change.
If you have the system dialed in at say 77 degrees and 35ppt then your tank goes to 79 during the day the back down at night you will possibly see enough difference to question your probe.

Right now i have a big swing while i'm waiting for some GHL fans to show up... but you can easily see the correlation between temp and salinity... total water volume is around 105 - 110 gallons. To me this is showing a working probe with temperature adjustments happening correctly. The in between peaks and valleys would be the ATO kicking in.

 

[MnFish1]

Just a question is you temperature very stable or does it change?
In my big system 1 degree low is almost .5ppt change.
If you have the system dialed in at say 77 degrees and 35ppt then your tank goes to 79 during the day the back down at night you will possibly see enough difference to question your probe.

First - its stable - second - a change from 35 to the 50's within minutes cant be explained by temperature. But - here is a question - aren't the Apex probes temperature calibrated (i.e. when the temp changes - their results change) - not a trick question - I just thought they were.

 

[MnFish1]

Right now i have a big swing while i'm waiting for some GHL fans to show up... but you can easily see the correlation between temp and salinity... total water volume is around 105 - 110 gallons. To me this is showing a working probe with temperature adjustments happening correctly. The in between peaks and valleys would be the ATO kicking in.

BTW - I would say a max swing between 35.3 and 34.9 - is 'not a swing' - but it does seem to move with the temp and pH. B ut - your Temp is moving a lot (thought the time isnt visible) - I assume the entire period is 24 hours. I wouldn't be worried about a salinity change within these levels

 

[jx fang]

I think the key is too keep the probe clean.
Mine always act crazy every now and then.
Works normal every time I cleaned it.
Just too much work for me.
I run an ultra low maintenance tank without filter socks.

 

[Sleepydoc]

While im glad thru these suggestions to see my salinity get truer to actual, was this the design in which we have to place our probes sideways or upside down?? is this technology ??? JUST SAYING

Well, all salinity probes I know of are actually conductivity probes - they measure the conductivity (impedance, actually) between two electrical contacts. That works, to a degree, but is ripe for errors. Temperature obviously affects it, but also anything on the electrodes - bubbles, sediment, critters, etc. This poses a problem - if you have it vertically with the probe down, it will collect bubbles. If you place it more upright, it will tend to collect sediment. Neptune’s recommendation is to have it at about a 45º angle to allow bubbles to escape. Obviously it’s still not perfect, though.

THe other problem is that the impedances measured are very small, meaning it takes a correspondingly small amount of interference to make a significant difference in the reading.

I’m not trying to excuse Neptune here - the probe is clearly not up to snuff, but the issues around making a probe that will stay reliable and accurate while submerged long term are not trivial.

As many have mentioned, the good part about all this is that the salinity probe is probably the least important probe of them all. If you think about it, there are only 4 things that can affect the salinity - salt going in, salt leaving, fresh water going in, and fresh water leaving.

Generally, the only way salt goes in or leaves is with water changes and skimmate. Salt creep may cause some trivial changes, and a water leak can obviously do it, but beyond that, there’s nothing that should affect the total amount of salt in the system.

Fresh water can only leave via evaporation and generally the only source is from your ATO, so if you have a decent ATO system, you should be set. You can certainly set an alarm with the salinity probe Incase the ATO goes haywire, but a safer course is to size your ATO reservoir so that even if the entire contents get dumped into the tank it won’t cause a dangerous swing (or a sump overflow)

 

[Rick Cavanaugh]

I found a solution to the apex salinity probe. Disconnect it. Throw it in the trash. It can not be trusted for anything. Buy a refractometer and calibration solution. Use the calibration solution on the refractometer. Now you have accurate readings.

 

[joekool]

First - its stable - second - a change from 35 to the 50's within minutes cant be explained by temperature. But - here is a question - aren't the Apex probes temperature calibrated (i.e. when the temp changes - their results change) - not a trick question - I just thought they were.

You can choose to use temperature compensation or not and you have the ability to change the amount of compensation if you use it. It’s not something the conductivity probe does its self. I think that each probe has a slight difference readings so they allow it to be changed.

If your probe is all over the place it could in-fact be bad. If the other variables are controlled I would say it’s bad as well. Nothings ever perfect and sometimes we get stuff that wasn’t good in the beginning so it never works right. That’s why there’s a lemon law for automobiles. If only there was a lemon law for aquarium equipment......Right!

 

[joekool]

Right now i have a big swing while i'm waiting for some GHL fans to show up... but you can easily see the correlation between temp and salinity... total water volume is around 105 - 110 gallons. To me this is showing a working probe with temperature adjustments happening correctly. The in between peaks and valleys would be the ATO kicking in.

Looks perfectly fine to me and temp compensation is working as it should. I don’t think the tiny ups and downs are the ato kicking in but more just tiny fluctuations in readings. Probably because it only shows the tenths in ppt and not hundredths too. It probably is the floating point between .05 and .1 if you get what I’m saying.

 

[K7BMG]

I had issues with stability, until I heard about cable separation.
Separated the cable out of the bundle, then I had stability, from that point forward, but have never had accuracy.
I found that after calibration it was closer but still off.
I use a Milwaukee and a ATI refractometer for accuracy.
So when I calibrate the probe I take the reading off of the other two units, use that reading and calibrate the probe in the tank using my water column as my calibration fluid, and adjust the probe accordingly. I have had all three reading consistent, for about two months.
Then the probe started to slowly show higher and higher readings over a few weeks peaked around 60 to 63. The other two methods did not follow this rise.
So I took it out, cleaned it, dried it, patted it on the back tried to calibrate it to no avail.
Still reads around 60-63. So I gather something got into the probe and is throwing it off.

I feel and have always felt that the Neptune probes are as they say HOBBY GRADE and will never have real accuracy or longevity. Could they do better? I think so, but the cost would be prohibitive at best.

Same goes with my PH probe, never reads the same as my two back up units, a Hanna, and a knock off. They are always between .02 of each other and the Neptune is a crap shoot. 1.0 +/- off of the other two.
I do not use the ORP.

The two Neptune temp probes on my system however have always been right on the mark all the time every time.

 

[Nasir]

That’s why I use the cheap, reliable, manual tester as Back up. It reads the same all the time.

 

[Nasir]

A lot of equipment is over rated and priced in this hobby.

 

[K7BMG]

Oh and a PS.
My Apex ATO. well that's another problem, worked for a while and now the optical eyes don't work. Always show open never closed. So I have to keep the ATO off and when I need top off water I turn it on through fusion and then back off. So I have no Automatic ATO.

So to me all the Apex peripherals are leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
Had the system since Febuary of this year, the ATO without checking my reciepts late April or early May.