Aquaforest 1+2+3+ or ATI Essentials?

[jsker]

Ever do icp and need to adjust anything? I'm assuming you do weekly wc?

I have not sent a test sample to ICP yet. I really do not know what benefit the ICP test would be for me unless I pulled a sample during a crash and sent it away, by that time it would be to late.

I was extending out my water changes to two to three week without issue but went back to a once a weeks and my system just looks better. I have been wanting to go to a daily water change automated and will do that soon. The reason for the daily is I want to see if the system consumes the same amount of 1+2+3+ or less. I have read and conversed with a few that there system did much better with the daily water change.

I used to use all the different drops and what have you, but found that my system performs better with just 1+2+3+ and the Aquaforest reef salt. Much better that anything I have use in years that I have been into salt water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have not sent a test sample to ICP yet. I really do not know what benefit the ICP test would be for me unless I pulled a sample during a crash and sent it away, by that time it would be to late.

I was extending out my water changes to two to three week without issue but went back to a once a weeks and my system just looks better. I have been wanting to go to a daily water change automated and will do that soon. The reason for the daily is I want to see if the system consumes the same amount of 1+2+3+ or less. I have read and conversed with a few that there system did much better with the daily water change.

I used to use all the different drops and what have you, but found that my system performs better with just 1+2+3+ and the Aquaforest reef salt. Much better that anything I have use in years that I have been into salt water.

One possible advantage might be if some elements were still too low, and you might consider raising them by dosing.

 

[BigJohnny]

One possible advantage might be if some elements were still too low, and you might consider raising them by dosing.

Exactly what I was getting at, to see how well his system's needs were being met by 123.

 

[BigJohnny]

I have not sent a test sample to ICP yet. I really do not know what benefit the ICP test would be for me unless I pulled a sample during a crash and sent it away, by that time it would be to late.

I was extending out my water changes to two to three week without issue but went back to a once a weeks and my system just looks better. I have been wanting to go to a daily water change automated and will do that soon. The reason for the daily is I want to see if the system consumes the same amount of 1+2+3+ or less. I have read and conversed with a few that there system did much better with the daily water change.

I used to use all the different drops and what have you, but found that my system performs better with just 1+2+3+ and the Aquaforest reef salt. Much better that anything I have use in years that I have been into salt water.

The idea of icp is to prevent issues (like a crash) by catching things early, not to explain one after the fact, although it is used for that. Also to fine tune your water chemistry by seeing the values of things you can't test for accurately at home, and to confirm you don't have any bad test kits.

Glad it's working out for you. You've never noticed any inconsistencies in batch to batch as well as vs the spec sheet of the AF reef salt? I've read a ton of bad reviews on wacky params not matching the sheet, also a sweet smell and yellow water lol.

 

[jsker]

One possible advantage might be if some elements were still too low, and you might consider raising them by dosing.

I do agree. Myself, I am testing still once a week before water changes and my number seem to stay pretty stead, but if needed I do make minor adjustments. I have read that some get frustrated with balling method, 1+2+3+ thinking once they have the dosing set they do not have to test anymore and the number stay steady.

My thinking with the auto water change is more export of nutrient on a daily basis then replacing elements helped?? What you thoughts

 

[jsker]

You've never noticed any inconsistencies in batch to batch as well as vs the spec sheet of the AF reef salt?

Yes, that is when I have to make my adjustments to the 1+2+3+ when I start a new batch of salt, I go for the big box Ahh yes the great salt debate of consistency of brands, I have been involved in a few of those and pulled a great deal of information from those thread. The one most important thing I pulled is that all salts have inconsistency like the ocean in different areas on the planet. I expect it do not worry about it.

also a sweet smell and yellow water lol.

I have not run into this from my experience and I have use the reef salt since Jan 2016

 

[BigJohnny]

Just ordered the bulk components to mix my own AF 1+2+3+!

Thanks all

 

[Killamanjaro]

Just ordered the bulk components to mix my own AF 1+2+3+!

Thanks all

What are the bulk components called with AF? I'm interested in this and want to read more about it.

 

[BigJohnny]

What are the bulk components called with AF? I'm interested in this and want to read more about it.

Kh dry, calcium dry, magnesium dry, reef mineral salt, and components strong

Mixing those according to recipe gets you aquaforest 1+2+3+ at much cheaper price, especially in the largest sizes.

 

[Killamanjaro]

Kh dry, calcium dry, magnesium dry, reef mineral salt, and components strong

Mixing those according to recipe gets you aquaforest 1+2+3+ at much cheaper price, especially in the largest sizes.

Awesome, I'll look into this.

I was initially wanting to go down the AF route but was put off by the costs for a 180G...All be it at the time I was looking at a Probiotic ULNS approach, glad I didnt go down that route. Balling/Balling lite is the way I'll be heading when the time comes, Just trying to understand it all.

 

[BigJohnny]

Awesome, I'll look into this.

I was initially wanting to go down the AF route but was put off by the costs for a 180G...All be it at the time I was looking at a Probiotic ULNS approach, glad I didnt go down that route. Balling/Balling lite is the way I'll be heading when the time comes, Just trying to understand it all.

Basically balling lite is theoretically more reliant on water changes than balling. Based on my research, mixing my own AF by buying the largest dry containers is the cheapest balling available, short of making your own which is way too complicated for me and most people. I looked at AF, tropic marin, ati essentials, and triton, which are all based on classic balling.

ESV is another cheap option but I don't like that it's only two parts for several reasons.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Basically balling lite is theoretically more reliant on water changes than balling. Based on my research, mixing my own AF by buying the largest dry containers is the cheapest balling available, short of making your own which is way too complicated for me and most people. I looked at AF, tropic marin, ati essentials, and triton, which are all based on classic balling.

ESV is another cheap option but I don't like that it's only two parts for several reasons.

What are those reasons? Why is it desirable to have more parts?

 

[BigJohnny]

What are those reasons? Why is it desirable to have more parts?

It's definitely not desirable to have more parts in general, I'd prefer 1 part balling if it were possible and didn't have any other drawbacks vs traditional 3 part/4 part. That's why I love kalk so much, it's so easy.

What I meant was 2 part balling like esv has a few (minor) drawbacks vs AF 3 part, imo:

1. Likely higher salinity increase due to "juggling of ions" to fit them in 2 containers -you words not mine lol
2. I don't believe that esv 2 part is necessarily as complete of a solution as classic 3 part balling or triton 4 part. If it were, more companies would be doing 2 bottles and classifying it as classic balling, imo. They don't state that they include all of the elements, just the important ones. Just because the contents are ionically balanced, doesn't mean the left overs contain everything (again, theoretically). Your 2 part is probably ionically balanced (3 part technically) but it doesn't include everything.

Since I hate doing water changes and try to avoid them at all costs, AF would require less for those 2 reasons. Would it make a noticeable difference? Who knows, but im trying to theoretically give myself the best odds at not having to do water changes to correct parameters.

ESV is certainly a fantastic product and tons of people have success with it. It's possible none of them contain everything and ESV is actually the best (I have not seen chemical analysis of all contents) but this is just what I believe. That's why I didn't say it was worse for having 2 bottles, just that I didn't like it. I was very close to choosing it in fact.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Tons of companies have two-part systems. I don’t think they have any relation to Balling and we’re devised independently, first by Bob Stark of ESV.

I have no reason at all to think two part systems are less complete or effective than those with more parts. My three part was designed as three parts due purely to the available diy chemicals a decade or more ago. Now far more chemicals are available to home users, and the diy can be easily made in two parts.

 

[BigJohnny]

Tons of companies have two-part systems. I don’t think they have any relation to Balling and we’re devised independently, first by Bob Stark of ESV.

Wasnt sure what you were getting at here until I realized I accidentally forgot to delete balling before esv. I meant to just say "2 part like esv" but had previously written something about balling and must have not deleted all of it.

I have no reason at all to think two part systems are less complete or effective than those with more parts.

Well that's fine, of course you are entitled to your opinion. I never said anything about them being less effective though, just to be clear (not saying that you said I did either). that is definitely a matter of opinion and since we can't isolate the success of our reef tanks to one thing anyway, and no two tanks are the same, I would never tell that to anyone certainly more than 1 way to skin a cat and many other factors at play.

My three part was designed as three parts due purely to the available diy chemicals a decade or more ago. Now far more chemicals are available to home users, and the diy can be easily made in two parts.

well that's cool, why havent you consolidated it into a 2 part version then? Just curious.

Your diy does not include every element that classic balling does, so not an apples to apples comparsion, if that's what you were getting at. If not, disregard that statement.

 

[BigJohnny]

I realize this may have also been misleading:

"If it were, more companies would be doing 2 bottles and classifying it as classic balling, imo"

what I meant was other companies that have 3 or 4 part "classic balling" based methods would be using 2 bottles instead.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Wasnt sure what you were getting at here until I realized I accidentally forgot to delete balling before esv. I meant to just say "2 part like esv" but had previously written something about balling and must have not deleted all of it.


Well that's fine, of course you are entitled to your opinion. I never said anything about them being less effective though, just to be clear (not saying that you said I did either). that is definitely a matter of opinion and since we can't isolate the success of our reef tanks to one thing anyway, and no two tanks are the same, I would never tell that to anyone [emoji4] certainly more than 1 way to skin a cat and many other factors at play.

well that's cool, why havent you consolidated it into a 2 part version then? Just curious.

Your diy does not include every element that classic balling does, so not an apples to apples comparsion, if that's what you were getting at. If not, disregard that statement.

Jim Welsh designed it and posted it in my forum a while ago. A number of folks use it, but it requires an extra ingredient, sodium sulfate.

I think I made clear in my earlier posts in this thread that ESV B-ionic is fully balanced while my DIY is not. Jim’s isn’t any more balanced, but a number of folks have figured out additional parts that add into it (or mine) to make it more complete.

We also have new versions that use hydroxide instead of bicarbonate or carbonate to give the aquaria a higher pH boost (like kalkwasser does).

 

[BigJohnny]

Jim Welsh designed it and posted it in my forum a while ago. A number of folks use it, but it requires an extra ingredient, sodium sulfate.

Oh cool, didn't know that. Surprised more don't due to simplicity.

I think I made clear in my earlier posts in this thread that ESV B-ionic is fully balanced while my DIY is not. Jim’s isn’t any more balanced, but a number of folks have figured out additional parts that add into it (or mine) to make it more complete.

I meant the ions in your diy were balanced with eachother (proportional to make up of seawater) but don't contain every element in seawater so would not result in a complete ionically balanced residual saltwater. That's what I think esv is, ionically balanced proportions of all the elements from saltwater they deem important, but not necessarily all of the elements (but more than most 2 parts).

If that by definition means it's not ionically balanced, then I guess I must be wrong, but im pretty sure esv can truthfully claim it's ionically balanced if all elements are in correct proportions to each other like they would be in seawater, even if they don't contain all of the elements in seawater. How's that for a sentence?

Just my opinion for the reasons I stated. A) they don't state they include them all and B) companies would offer a 2 part equivalent version of a "classic balling" based method, imo.

We also have new versions that use hydroxide instead of bicarbonate or carbonate to give the aquaria a higher pH boost (like kalkwasser does).

Yea I saw that one, pretty cool. Keep on keeping on man

 

[RobM]

been using the COMPONENT STRONG A, B, C, K with BRS 2 part for the past 6 months and so far no water changes and things looking better than ever. Just sent in triton ICP so I'll see where I'm at...

 

[BigJohnny]

been using the COMPONENT STRONG A, B, C, K with BRS 2 part for the past 6 months and so far no water changes and things looking better than ever. Just sent in triton ICP so I'll see where I'm at...

Are you using the aquaforest 1+2+3+ recipe (minus reef mineral salt) to mix the components strong a,b,c,k with your brs calcium chloride/sodium bicarbonate/magnesium mix or are you just dosing them per the directions on the box?