Are Mercury-Containing Lights Doomed to Extinction?

[Nonya]

I am more worried about the banning of importing coral and fish before I am worried about lights.

Like fish from Hawaii, and corals on the CITES list?

 

[Nonya]

I have heard that Hamilton can sell enough bulbs to just public aquariums to make it worthwhile for production runs... and then we can buy bulbs too.

Capacity has nothing to do with the law banning them. Fortunately, there are RoHS-compliant alternatives.

Phoenix 14k and Radium 20k are general purpose bulbs in Japan and the EU and are made in abundance.

Again, the EU won't allow them in 2023.

ReefBrite and Giesemann sell enough to formulate new bulbs in the last few years with better spectrum and much less heat (new Hamilton 20k is also less heat). Heard that ATI does well, but have not been to Germany to talk with them and have not seen them at a show in a LONG time, so I have not been able to ask.

Germany, as part of the EU, will be subject to the Feb 2023 mercury ban.

 

[Nonya]

That's a distinct possibility, yes. I still remember how long it took to phase-out leaded gasoline...

There's a difference between phasing out millions of used cars relying on leaded gas and easily replaceable lights. You can't just dispose of your reliable family car and buy an expensive new one. Incandescent and mercury-based CFL bulbs are easily replaced by LEDs now. Mercury-based straight tube fluorescents can be directly replaced by LEDs. Mercury-based streetlights are already being replaced by LEDs. Mercury-based warehouse lights are easily replaced by LEDs.

 

[jda]

If you are posting all of this for me, then I don't care what you think about it. You could try contacting somebody in the EU with your thoughts but they probably won't care either. ...maybe Giesemann, Radium or AquaMedic who are well poised to keep on making specialty bulbs well past 2023 even though crit21 said so? They might want to know. We have all seen these posts for more than a decade - people not wanting it listen and learn and just picking and choosing what they want to hear/see about things. The truth is that I will still be using my MH bulbs in a decade after you have long left the hobby and a few more posters just like you have also come and gone knowing all that there is to know about the future without knowing anything about the past.

 

[Nonya]

If you are posting all of this for me, then I don't care what you think about it. You could try contacting somebody in the EU with your thoughts but they probably won't care either. ...maybe Giesemann, Radium or AquaMedic who are well poised to keep on making specialty bulbs well past 2023 even though crit21 said so? They might want to know. We have all seen these posts for more than a decade - people not wanting it listen and learn and just picking and choosing what they want to hear/see about things. The truth is that I will still be using my MH bulbs in a decade after you have long left the hobby and a few more posters just like you have also come and gone knowing all that there is to know about the future without knowing anything about the past.

No, I'm not posting all of this for one person. I post this information for anyone who thinks aquarium bulbs are in some kind of "special exempt" RoHS category. Exemptions are for purposes such as medical products (e.g., UV for sterilization). Mercury-containing aquarium bulbs made by the German manufacturers ATI, Giesmann, Radium, and Aqua Medic will be relegated to history.

As non-mercury alternatives are readily available, there's no valid reason to exempt manufacturers.

 

[jda]

Are you going to be the first one to have the guts to come back here and apologize when you realize that you wrongly posted about these things and that your posts were not accurate? None of the others ever have, at least that I can remember... just disappeared.

Again, nobody probably cares with crit21's opinion of "alternative" or "valid" is but I guess that you could write somebody who makes policy and try.

Have you reached out to any one of these manufacturers to ask them what is actually happening? Some go to shows - you can even find them there. ...not ruin it for you, but what they tell you won't align with what you are wanting. This is easy if you put in some work.

 

[Nonya]

If the subject spins you up too much, why not hoard bulbs now, as others are planning to do?

 

[Nonya]

Are you going to be the first one to have the guts to come back here and apologize when you realize that you wrongly posted about these things and that your posts were not accurate? None of the others ever have, at least that I can remember... just disappeared.

I'm not going anywhere.

Have you reached out to any one of these manufacturers to ask them what is actually happening? Some go to shows - you can even find them there. ...not ruin it for you, but what they tell you won't align with what you are wanting. This is easy if you put in some work.

Maybe you can do that. I don't understand German.

 

[Nonya]

What about UV sterilizer bulbs?

Those are clearly specialty bulbs, and required for numerous medical and industrial purposes. A readily available (LED) alternative won't be available for some time, if at all. Their exemption is likely to be allowed for years.

 

[jda]

Who not hoard bulbs? ...because I am smart, know what is happening, talked to plenty of people and know that I do not have to. I also know that some of them are planning newer versions with less heat and IR waste above 1000nm, which people who hoard will miss out on.

This is so weak. You can do better. All of them speak plenty of english, which you would know if you even tried to gather some information or went to a show. They all also have reps in the US (maybe not AquaMedic anymore) who are likely citizens. BTW - I do indeed do this, which is why I know what I am talking about. Have you ever been to Germany or met a German?

 

[Nonya]

Who not hoard bulbs? ...because I am smart, know what is happening, talked to plenty of people and know that I do not have to. I also know that some of them are planning newer versions with less heat and IR waste above 1000nm, which people who hoard will miss out on.

This is so weak. You can do better. All of them speak plenty of english, which you would know if you even tried to gather some information or went to a show. They all also have reps in the US (maybe not AquaMedic anymore) who are likely citizens. BTW - I do indeed do this, which is why I know what I am talking about. Have you ever been to Germany or met a German?

"Who not"? Is that German? lol

You've talked to a lot of people? Anyone in the German manufacturing industry, or just a lot of hobbyists who want to keep doing whatever they want? No doubt the manufacturers are pressuring their politicians to delay the end, but people concerned with the environment are likely to win out before long. How many people dispose of fluorescent and halide bulbs responsibly, vice just tossing them in the trash and breaking them, allowing the mercury to evaporate? Or do they all return them to a place that responsibly collects and recycles the rare Earth phosphors and mercury? According to the nonprofit ACEEE (The American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy), "an estimated 75% of fluorescent bulbs used in the United States are not recycled or disposed of properly; mercury leached from landfills eventually reaches rivers, lakes, and oceans, where it bioaccumulates in fish and shellfish. Consumption of contaminated seafood is the leading cause of human exposure to mercury. Broken bulbs in homes and buildings, if not properly cleaned up, can also present a health risk to those nearby."

Yes, I visited Germany once--for 24 hours. Everyone I talked to spoke English. They were all Americans. LOL.

Most of the EU is pressuring the one or two countries (like Germany) to comply with RoHS. See below for communication from Denmark to the EC. Mattia Pellegrini is currently Head of Unit for « Waste Management & Secondary Materials » at DG Environment, European Commission.

So...how do you feel about the real reason behind globally eliminating mercury from lighting?

 

[jda]

Dude - you are still just seeing what you want to see. The first sentence in that linked document says "general lighting purposes." There is no way to slice or dice a hobby as general lighting... any hobby, not just ours. It seems apparent that you don't see it this way, but everybody else does.

I am not an advocate of using mercury in general lighting in most instances. However, LEDs are not always the answer either, which is being seen with more use. Many of the big-box stores around us have removed their LED lights and replaced them with T5s and solar/sky lights - I tried to research why when the manager at the club just said that corporate sent them and people to install them - this seems like a good job for Oreo since I am not much of a searcher. I will get a photo the next time that I am in one, if I remember... but they used to have LEDs. I all for skylights/solar lights, especially here in Colorado where we have a lot of sun.

I am also smart enough to separate the differences between general purpose and specialty lighting and not mix the two. Having asking actual experts has helped in this.

Call or email one of the real companies. Go to a show. You can even do this with Phillips, which is a huge EU company, makes many speciality and GP lights. You will find out that your opinions and takes about this hobby are all wrong, at least for now.

People better be recycling their mercury based bulbs, if they can. I do. I can do this 24/7 in my town. There is a bin next to the batteries. I understand that this is not possible everywhere.

 

[Nonya]

Dude - you are still just seeing what you want to see. The first sentence in that linked document says "general lighting purposes." There is no way to slice or dice a hobby as general lighting... any hobby, not just ours. It seems apparent that you don't see it this way, but everybody else does.

Say it with me. It's just a hobby. Hobby lighting is not specialty lighting, no matter how hard you wish and pray. The view of hobbyists isn't worth jack squat when it comes to international agreements. There's no valid, logical association between hobby lights for your aquarium and an essential specialty function, such as medical sterilization and industrial curing with UV light sources. I'd start buying your bulbs now.

 

[jda]

I am going to stop since you don't seem to want to get it. Set a reminder on a device to come back here and apologize when people are buying ATI bulbs and Radium MH in 2023... you can be the first.

 

[Nonya]

I would like to "get it", but what is there to "get"? Hobby lighting isn't all that special that it needs its own classification beyond just general lighting. Mercury is a global problem. The world is eliminating its use from nonessential products where suitable, and readily available alternatives exist. CE RoHS is easy to look up and understand.

Of course you'll be able to buy them in 2023. I'm sure the existing stock will be available for a limited time in 2023, at a hugely inflated price. As LEDs are more than up to the task, reducing mercury in the environment with RoHS compliance isn't even a small price to pay.

 

[bibarassa]

Hi to all what jda is saying i’s all true in fact 3 months ago I switched from radion xr30 blue gen5 to radium bulb and before doing this I wrote to radium asking if they are still making their bulbs and they answered me:yes, surely.So they gave me the address of an Italian shop where I could buy their bulbs and I phoned to the Italian shop and ordered a box with 12 bulbs without problems……….thanks again Doug

 

[PaulErik]

Bulbs/lamps for our industry (aquaculture / aquarium) are exempt from local and foreign regulations. This is from someone that works closely with the manufacturers, exporters and importers.

Most people are not aware that bulbs for our industry are based off the ultraviolet lighting industry and not general lighting industry. As long as the demand is there the manufactures will continue manufacturing bulbs. Even specialty spectrum bulbs like aquarium bulbs.

Some background on the Radium bulbs. They were actually designed for architectural lighting but the aquarium/ aquaculture lighting took over the sales. It was PFO lighting and myself that brought these to the North American market. We did the ballast and lamp compatibly tests for many manufacturers and found which products were viable for the market.

Even ballasts are exempt from energy regulations. As all of these products are categorized as none generally lighting equipment. The aquaculture/farming industry is pretty large compared to hobby side.

 

[Nonya]

Bulbs/lamps for our industry (aquaculture / aquarium) are exempt from local and foreign regulations. This is from someone that works closely with the manufacturers, exporters and importers.

Most people are not aware that bulbs for our industry are based off the ultraviolet lighting industry and not general lighting industry. As long as the demand is there the manufactures will continue manufacturing bulbs. Even specialty spectrum bulbs like aquarium bulbs.

Some background on the Radium bulbs. They were actually designed for architectural lighting but the aquarium/ aquaculture lighting took over the sales. It was PFO lighting and myself that brought these to the North American market. We did the ballast and lamp compatibly tests for many manufacturers and found which products were viable for the market.

Even ballasts are exempt from energy regulations. As all of these products are categorized as none generally lighting equipment. The aquaculture/farming industry is pretty large compared to hobby side.

Interesting. What is your link to the manufacturers?

 

[HuduVudu]

but people concerned with the environment are likely to win out before long.

Go to Manila.

ROFL

 

[HuduVudu]

As LEDs are more than up to the task, reducing mercury in the environment with RoHS compliance isn't even a small price to pay.

I love this thinking. This is what comes from thinking that you can understand complicated supply webs. Life isn't Sim City. Unintended consequences are real. If we move to all LED we are going to swap mecurary for lead. Seems like a fair trade (sic).