Are you ich management?

[polyppal]

14 days copper treatment with General Cure 2 x 7 days apart to cover ich, velvet, internal worms and flukes. I then transfer to sterile tank for 14 days for observation.

Very similar to me. For last 3 years on thousands of dollars of fish I do:

(Prior to introduction, H202 bath per @Humblefish , 1 week prazipro, 2 weeks copper power @2.25 then H2O2 bath and transfer fish to new/clean tank for observation.

has been 90+% successful for me long term. No disease in my DTs,

 

[BoneDoc]

45 days later, ich remains and approximately $1500 of SPS gone. nothing but skeletons

Sorry to hear about your sps loss. What happened to them?

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Very similar to me. For last 3 years on thousands of dollars of fish I do:

(Prior to introduction, H202 bath per @Humblefish , 1 week prazipro, 2 weeks copper power @2.25 then H2O2 bath and transfer fish to new/clean tank for observation.

has been 90+% successful for me long term. No disease in my DTs,

Nice! glad you found a formula that works. Typically they advise 2 treatments of Prazipro 5-7 days apart with 25% water change. That way you get the hatchlings during the lifecycle of flukes.

 

[jmichaelh7]

Sorry to hear about your sps loss. What happened to them?

81 degrees jumped to 84 and RTN

 

[BoneDoc]

Would the temp spike cause the RTN with or without the itch?

 

[Zionas]

I think if one goes the management route and even if one buys from good sources for quarantined fish, the chances of the management route working out would come down to:

1. Not having a densely stocked tank with a high bioload

2. Not having overly aggressive and overly timid fish together

3. Not cramming fish into undersized tanks

4. Avoiding certain types of fish

5. Using a UV sterilizer

6. Buying captive bred livestock preferably from the breeder.


If I wanted a densely stocked tank I’d have a good sized QT and undergo prophylactic treatment for 30 days.

Either way you make trade offs, that’s the way I see it. But so far I don’t really mind some of the trade offs because I’m not into a high bioload to begin with and I’m not into very difficult fish.

Going the management route somewhat limits the bioload and livestock one can have when the risk vs reward factor is considered, but to me that’s fine as I’m not going for species diversity but social units.

Hobbyists in Asia who have FOWLR tanks usually medicate their tanks directly without resorting to separate QT systems. Very few will go the lengths that Western hobbyists will. That’s my observation.


I would, without a doubt, subject everything to a full regimen if I go the species diversity approach with a high bioload. A problem in Asia is that many staples of prophylactic treatment are sporadically available or not at all and I don’t trust the local products. SeaChem isn’t too hard to get, but chelated copper (vs ionic copper) is a hard one.

TTM I think is very stressful for the fish.

Overall though, I don’t have the technical competence for a full medical QT regime. Getting it wrong has bad consequences. And that QT means different things for different hobbyists. For some it’s more observational than medical / preventative, for others you get the full package from meds to TTM.

 

[gd1985]

Being new to the hobby I've tried both, with varying success.

I added livestock to the tank when it was set up & lost 8 fish due to ich over a 2 month period.

After biting the bullet & going fallow I put the surfing fish in a 50L QT with cupramine. All ok & went back into the display after 4 months. At this point everything I bought was going to get treated with copper.

I then bought a royal gramma, mcoskers wrasse & a pair of cloys. The wrasse & gramma didn't survive the QT. As soon as the cupramine hit therapeutic dose both went downhill quite quickly despite no signs of issues for 2 weeks with just observing them. Thats worried me as i'm putting the fish in s stressful/sterile environment & putting medication into them that they don't necessarily need.

I was conscious of fish in the LFS having some copper in the system so potentially masking any signs of ich. With that in mind I've bought a group of anthias they keep in the coral trays. These have been in the store for a few months & all healthy. They went straight into my system 3 weeks ago & so far no issues. I'll be doing the same with some wrasse that don't do well in with copper.

On anything else i'll use the observation method for a month & if something comes up I can treat then.

 

[Zionas]

Your experience outlines many of my concerns. From what I have gathered the treatment process can be equally harmful to the fish’s physical condition. A lot of times I’m really not sure what to do.

Until then, I will only go for a medium-low number of fish and try to get them captive bred from the best possible sources. I’ll also use UV.

 

[Saltees]

I think if one goes the management route and even if one buys from good sources for quarantined fish, the chances of the management route working out would come down to:

1. Not having a densely stocked tank with a high bioload

2. Not having overly aggressive and overly timid fish together

3. Not cramming fish into undersized tanks

4. Avoiding certain types of fish

5. Using a UV sterilizer

6. Buying captive bred livestock preferably from the breeder.


If I wanted a densely stocked tank I’d have a good sized QT and undergo prophylactic treatment for 30 days.

Either way you make trade offs, that’s the way I see it. But so far I don’t really mind some of the trade offs because I’m not into a high bioload to begin with and I’m not into very difficult fish.

Going the management route somewhat limits the bioload and livestock one can have when the risk vs reward factor is considered, but to me that’s fine as I’m not going for species diversity but social units.

Hobbyists in Asia who have FOWLR tanks usually medicate their tanks directly without resorting to separate QT systems. Very few will go the lengths that Western hobbyists will. That’s my observation.


I would, without a doubt, subject everything to a full regimen if I go the species diversity approach with a high bioload. A problem in Asia is that many staples of prophylactic treatment are sporadically available or not at all and I don’t trust the local products. SeaChem isn’t too hard to get, but chelated copper (vs ionic copper) is a hard one.

TTM I think is very stressful for the fish.

Overall though, I don’t have the technical competence for a full medical QT regime. Getting it wrong has bad consequences. And that QT means different things for different hobbyists. For some it’s more observational than medical / preventative, for others you get the full package from meds to TTM.

Hope this helps…I was losing 50% fishes initially to 72 hr TTM as I was also feeding heavy resulting in water fouling. As I moved up to 24-36 hr TTM, I didn’t lose a fish since. You just need half a dozen or so 5 gallon buckets with dedicated air stone each.

 

[gd1985]

Your experience outlines many of my concerns. From what I have gathered the treatment process can be equally harmful to the fish’s physical condition. A lot of times I’m really not sure what to do.

Until then, I will only go for a medium-low number of fish and try to get them captive bred from the best possible sources. I’ll also use UV.

I also run a UV on my DT, that was added a few weeks ago. TBH I can't tell any difference with the water clarity/algae but i've had no other signs of disease so I'll just keep running it. The test will come when I add a tang!

 

[Zionas]

Nice which Tang are you planning on adding?

 

[gd1985]

Nice which Tang are you planning on adding?

Powder blue

 

[nereefpat]

Powder blue

Arguably the worst for an 'ich management' situation, in case you aren't aware.

 

[BoneDoc]

Save the PBT for one of the last tangs as they are now of the more dominant tangs out there

 

[gd1985]

Arguably the worst for an 'ich management' situation, in case you aren't aware.

I'm aware, the plan will be to keep it in my 50L for about 3 months. If anything shows up I'll treat in the qt.

If not, it'll go into the DT fattened up

 

[gd1985]

Save the PBT for one of the last tangs as they are now of the more dominant tangs out there

I dont have any tangs in there at the min. I've got a Coral Beauty, x2 clowns, x2 chromis, x5 scribbled anthias, Chalk Goby & Royal Gramma.

It'll be the last fish to go in with my current stocklist

 

[gunflintcamper]

For me, mature tank with real live rock and sand. Ich tomont stands no chance with all of the critters on the surfaces of my tank - free meals. I am under no illusion that this is eradication, but I learned long ago that this is mostly a pipe dream for nearly all and that I would never be one of the otherwise... just not intent on QTing every invert, coral, rock, etc... and something is going to slip by for nearly everybody and especially me.

I do isolate fish when I get them, make sure that they are not skittish and eating everything... then into the large tanks they go.

I would never do this since it is not responsible, but if you put an ich covered Powder Blue Tang in my tank, there would be nary a spot on any of the other fish...and if there was, it would soon be gone never to be seen again. I have no idea if the PBT would make it, but the healthy fish would be fine.

All of the people who start with sterile tanks with bare bottom, dead/dry rock, etc. are creating a perfect petri dish for fish disease. Yet another thing that the proponents of dead/dry rock tend to leave out.

Ok I know this is a really old thread/response I’m replying to…but I have to add some real world experience that supports this theory.

We have had and tried to eradicate ich twice, both before our tank was 8 months old. Sterile, not enough small critters…etc. now with a well established 2 year old tank with fat healthy fish, a thriving refugium and a balanced ecosystem, we have had a couple dots of ich show up on two fish and within 2 weeks it was gone.

I’m still debating the whole fallow thing again but with three tanks now, I’m afraid it’s likely been transferred among them all and we are thinking of sitting in management mode. If bloodworms weren’t impossible to get I wouldn’t consider eradication again. Each time lost fish or had secondary infections.

I will still QT but not medicate unless needed.

 

[jmichaelh7]

Ok I know this is a really old thread/response I’m replying to…but I have to add some real world experience that supports this theory.

We have had and tried to eradicate ich twice, both before our tank was 8 months old. Sterile, not enough small critters…etc. now with a well established 2 year old tank with fat healthy fish, a thriving refugium and a balanced ecosystem, we have had a couple dots of ich show up on two fish and within 2 weeks it was gone.

I’m still debating the whole fallow thing again but with three tanks now, I’m afraid it’s likely been transferred among them all and we are thinking of sitting in management mode. If bloodworms weren’t impossible to get I wouldn’t consider eradication again. Each time lost fish or had secondary infections.

I will still QT but not medicate unless needed.

Could you go fallow again , and run a quarantine all over ?

Its a sensitive conversation. I don't advise anyone to do anything but it's recommended to QT all. Whether you medicate or observe is up to the reefer and their experience.

Personally i will observe for two weeks now.. my BPT in my display will get spots but a day or so later disappear. So it's u p to you to decide

 

[nuxx Verified Sponsor]

I am extremely impatient...

With the amount of money you sink into your tank, especially as they grow, you really just have to take a step back and think about all the time / pain and money you'll spend if something get into the tank.

I can even think of the 1000's of dollars I lost quarantining coral and cuc before going into the tank. I had very low loses with fish in QT and luckily never found a disease in the display. Now even all the lost hype frags I had in QT, pale in comparison to if something got in the tank.

Wrote this years ago and pretty much followed it religiously with my fish. It's been pointed out that if the fish arrives in bad shape, do the copper treatment before PraziPro. I'd always do PraziPro first since I thought it was easier on new fish.

Best Quarantine Procedures For Saltwater Fish and Coral

Quarantining new saltwater fish, coral, inverts and live rock is the most important step in keeping a healthy marine aquarium. Here are our preferred methods.

www.tankstop.com

 

[gunflintcamper]

Could you go fallow again , and run a quarantine all over ?

Its a sensitive conversation. I don't advise anyone to do anything but it's recommended to QT all. Whether you medicate or observe is up to the reefer and their experience.

Personally i will observe for two weeks now.. my BPT in my display will get spots but a day or so later disappear. So it's u p to you to decide

I could…but when fish have zero symptoms and I’ve only seen a few occasional dots…I refuse to chance killing some due to stress and copper.

If their health is in danger and they show signs of any distress, I will probably pull all the fish from all 3 tanks and go 100% fallow to keep the chance of cross contamination out of it.

*edited to add: We don’t have tangs…don’t want them and won’t get them. Most of our fish are wrasses, clowns and gobies that are fairly hardy when it comes to ich. The Foxface is the only one that has repeatedly shown signs.