Brute and phosphate issues

Fishtankery · Dec 6, 2013

Interesting thread.

I use the 44 Gal Brute can for mixing my salt. However that's never in that specific container for more than 4-5 hours max. I do notice a significant amount of white, powdery residue left over after it's been drained. Not to derail the conversation. I hope this next question is still in scope.

I use the Rubbermaid - 150 gal stock tank as a sump in my garage. So far I've had no issues Anyone have any feedback regarding that specific container as a sump? It's made of a different chemical composition.

Credit: I got the idea from this gentleman.

stunreefer · Dec 6, 2013

nwpowell0481 said:
You would be amazed at how affective RO/DI water is at pulling stuff off a surface. It sucks it up like a sponge.

This is a great point, and I have used RO/DI to leach out Phosphate from plastics for years. RO/DI water itself is extremely unstable, and will try to grab anything (including out of the air - so keep covered!) to stabilize itself. Generally speaking soaking any plastic in RO/DI for a few days, flushing, re-filling and repeating a couple times will leach out Phosphate. Acid washing is another great way to strip plasticizers, although I'm skeptical that vinegar will do much, if anything at all.

Per the Rubbermaid website, "Gray, White and Yellow are USDA Meat & Poultry Equipment Group Listed and assist in complying with HACCP guidelines." Now I'm not in the food services industry, but in my opinion we should be more focused on potable water safe reservoirs (potable water is another term used for drinking safe water). These reservoirs can be found on various websites (or some local stores like Tractor Supply).

Another interesting observation was reported by Eric Borneman back in 2009 regarding Brute containers.

Greenstreet.1 · Dec 6, 2013

I would say 3 months

JOKER · Dec 6, 2013

I just got curious. My 40 gallon is running very high like .5 and did 60 gallons of water change in a 2 week period and still phosphate was high. I decided to test water after leaving it for a few days and got .16. Will be checking my other as well but been busy. I have 1 for fresh water, one for salt and one emergency as to have to do a large water change. Plan to test tonight or tomorrow and see if the others are leaching

nazzman · Dec 6, 2013

**** I thought I was nuts started using new barrel in June and had blooms since if left in container more than 2days have brownish residue left over in side going to work on that first thing tomorrow

.AcroKiller. · Dec 6, 2013

Fishtankery said:
Interesting thread.

I use the 44 Gal Brute can for mixing my salt. However that's never in that specific container for more than 4-5 hours max. I do notice a significant amount of white, powdery residue left over after it's been drained. Not to derail the conversation. I hope this next question is still in scope.

I use the Rubbermaid - 150 gal stock tank as a sump in my garage. So far I've had no issues Anyone have any feedback regarding that specific container as a sump? It's made of a different chemical composition.

Credit: I got the idea from this gentleman.

You are fine on the stock tank I use 2 of them as sumps also and they are made for water

JOKER · Dec 6, 2013

Havent checked yet. Plan to tomorrow. Have the BRS 6 stage unit. Filters and resin are fairly new but will be ordered soon.

Greenstreet.1 said:
Did you ever check the water right from the rodi unit also what unit are you using ?

Greenstreet.1 · Dec 7, 2013

You may get 0.01 at your rodi I spoke to brs about that and was told that it was normal to get that coming out of the unit I don't know if it's the same for the you unit. I have there four stage unit.

Sacohen · Dec 7, 2013

I decide to check my new 20 gallon Brute Trash can.
Checked 2 times with a Hanna Checker.

1st time 0.07
2nd time 0.00

Pretty good I guess.
I may take some other tests later.

eitallent · Dec 7, 2013

food grade trash liners to line the Brute 32 g container

Thanks for this thread and links to other info.

I noticed a bloom of algae since getting the Brute, so I increased water changes to reduce nutrients. :squigglemouth: I did not connect these dots! Laughs on me.

I also reduce the light period and it has not helped.

I also noticed the water smelled strange after a day or two of storing it in the Brute. I asked about this in various forums but no one seemed to have the same concern. I stopped storing water in it. I collect the RODI water in it one day and mix the salt in it the next morning and do the water change 4 to 6 hours later. Still the leaching of chemicals must be enough to encourage algae growth.

I just ordered food grade plastic liners for the Brute container from this company:

http://www.discountplasticbags.com/products/24-x-36-x-1-Mil-Clear-Flat-Utility-Poly-Bags-%28L2440%29.html

They should last me about nine years! It will cost $10 per year. Hopefully this will help with the leaching.

poolkeeper1 · Dec 7, 2013

eitallent said:
Thanks for this thread and links to other info.

I noticed a bloom of algae since getting the Brute, so I increased water changes to reduce nutrients. :squigglemouth: I did not connect these dots! Laughs on me.

I also reduce the light period and it has not helped.

I also noticed the water smelled strange after a day or two of storing it in the Brute. I asked about this in various forums but no one seemed to have the same concern. I stopped storing water in it. I collect the RODI water in it one day and mix the salt in it the next morning and do the water change 4 to 6 hours later. Still the leaching of chemicals must be enough to encourage algae growth.

I just ordered food grade plastic liners for the Brute container from this company:

http://www.discountplasticbags.com/products/24-x-36-x-1-Mil-Clear-Flat-Utility-Poly-Bags-(L2440).html

They should last me about nine years! It will cost $10 per year. Hopefully this will help with the leaching.

Would you like to sell a years worth to recoup some of your money, If so PM me to set up a buy.
Bill

eitallent · Dec 7, 2013

Sure! It cost me 22 cents per liner. So if you want 52 bags it would cost you $11. 44 plus what ever shipping you would like to use. Let me know with a PM

Sacohen · Dec 7, 2013

I just did 2 more checks with my Hannah Checker and I got a 0 reading on both of them.

JOKER · Dec 7, 2013

One of my other brutes shows.09, the other shows 0. Both the ones I have used a heater in show phosphates. The one I have never used a heater in shows 0. Wonder if the heater has something to do with it?? The one for fresh water keeps water in it all the time. All are in same spot, keep lids on them filled with same rodi.

joekool · Dec 7, 2013

I too have noticed a funny smell. If I leave The RO/DI water in ther for more than a day it has a cat urine kind of funky smell. not sure what that is. I fill my brute 32 overnight and then mix salt in am. Red Sea coral pro salt says you need to use it after 30 min to 4 hours no longer just after it has mixed clear and ph stable. I know that if I leave solt mixing that it leaves carbinate on the walls of the brute. maybe food safe linners are the way to go. How do they hold up to the flowing water.

I should just buy the right kind of container.

eitallent · Dec 8, 2013

joekool said:
I too have noticed a funny smell. If I leave The RO/DI water in ther for more than a day it has a cat urine kind of funky smell. not sure what that is. I fill my brute 32 overnight and then mix salt in am. Red Sea coral pro salt says you need to use it after 30 min to 4 hours no longer just after it has mixed clear and ph stable. I know that if I leave solt mixing that it leaves carbinate on the walls of the brute. maybe food safe linners are the way to go. How do they hold up to the flowing water.

I should just buy the right kind of container.

I think your description of the smell is right on the money! It does smell like urea. Thank you for confirming that. I looked up the type of plastic the Brute is made of. It is HDPE 2 which is supposed to be food grade. However, with the smell that leaches into the water it is likely that some plasticizer/coating is leaching into the water as Eric Borneman describes in his article linked above.

I will let you know what the liners are like when I get them in. They are 1 mil thick. They are designed to hold food and meant to be resistant. We will see.

redtop03 · Dec 8, 2013

I use a different container now but never noticed any issues with the brute can before, other than it was too big around for where I wanted to put it LOL

JOKER · Dec 15, 2013

Ok so cleaned the brute with vinegar, now running water to do a water change. Tested 0 and .02 with hanna, also checked with api and it was between 0 and .25. Will check again after mixing water.

JOKER · Dec 15, 2013

Ok water is mixing now. Phosphate at 0 still. Started off with 1/3 of salt and added more after got a 0 reading. Will check again after get to 1.024. No smell as of yet.