Can't keep fish alive in QT

[K7BMG]

Well I have an issue, 9 fish have died in my care, I do not know what I am doing wrong.
The attached 2 pics are of the Midnight when I got home today. He is still barely alive, not breathing fast but obviously will not last long.

They all have died in the same basic manner.
I get them they are doing fine, eating and swimming normally. Then they stop eating and die within a day or two.
So far all I am doing is killing my fish 0 success. 9 for 9.
I need to figure out what’s wrong, or what I am doing wrong.

First 8 were purchased at my LFS, the last was at Petco.
The fish at my local LFS seem ok, there are two or three fish they had before I bought the original 8 and are still there doing well. They are in the same water column that my fish came from.

My water source is from our well.

My Step Daughter has 20 some fresh water fish and they all have been healthy and happy, maybe have lost three in the year and a half she has kept fish. We have a water softener and iron filter on the house.
The same well water feeds the shop but without the water softener.

I have a BRS 7 stage RO/DI unit making my fresh water.

Tropic Marin Pro salt mixed to 1.025, verified by a Milwaukee refractometer that has been calibrated.

Double checked with a hand held unit.

Ph using the Hanna PH meter also calibrated is and reads a PH of 8.01

API Master saltwater test kit all read 0-Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrate.

Salifert Ammonia test kit also reads 0

When I detect Ammonia I do a water change of 50%. Has never been above 0.25

I use the water from my main display when I do a WC.
I go on the observe first before just medicating.

Are saltwater fish just that delicate anymore?



UNTIL I KNOW what’s wrong I don’t want to take the chance on more fish.

This is all the information I can muster for you to evaluate.

 

[Mjrenz]

@Frtdrmrose7 @ngoodermuth @HotRocks @4FordFamily @Big G

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Did you have any meds running? How long did you have the fish? Did you FW dip any of them? Do you have pics of the others? Any spots (raised)? Dusted appearance? Sloughing skin?

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

From the look of the midnight I would’ve done a FW dip and I think I can see a few spots starting.

 

[HotRocks]

Sorry to hear of your struggles.

There has to be something going on. How quickly are they dying? If you don't have any type of contamination then it's likely disease related.

Disease is so rampant these days that it causes me to treat every new fish prophylactically. I am aggressive with treatments. I start fish off in copper immediately. I also feed medicated food. It's not the way I prefer to do it, but it's the only way I can keep fish alive.

 

[Crabs McJones]

"I use the water from my main display when I do a WC.
I go on the observe first before just medicating."

Are there any fish in your main display? Also a quarantine should be completely cut off from the display tank. Reason being is if you have ich or velvet in the display, taking that tank water and putting it in your qt tank restarts the treatment clock every time you do it.

 

[K7BMG]

So I started the QT with no meds.
I did not do freshwater dips on any of the fish.
My two 20G QT tanks are each separate.
My main display tank has cycled and has no livestock or Algae yet.
I am trying to stock it with the QT fish but alas no good.

Maybe my eyes are to old to see the physical signs of problems.

My first 8 fish I had in QT for two weeks.
5 Chromis in one 20G tank.
1 Watchman 1 Royal G 1 Bicolor angel.
Over a two week period one fish died every other day.
As stated all were eating and acting normal, then one would stop eating and die then repeat.
The only sign I ever saw was the last two Chromis started to show signs of Ich, and I medicated with Cupramine, and Furian-2
When the furan-2 went in the fish both started with stringy whip feces. Indicating internal parasites.

 

[K7BMG]

I was told by guy online that the midnight had Uronema. <-Spelling?

 

[K7BMG]

I bought the midnight last Friday 4-12 and he died yesterday 4-15 so three days.
I drip acclimated almost three hours.
Put him and LFS water in container.
Set drip to 2-3 drops a second doubled the water volume.
Drained 50% and dripped again to double water volume and transferred him only no LFS water.
Salinity of LFS water was 1.022 diluted original QT water from 1.025 to 1.023 using fresh RO/DI.
Day two did a partial WC and salinity went up to 1.024 and one more in the am WC and went up to 1.025.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I was told by guy online that the midnight had Uronema. <-Spelling?

Uronema causes red blotches or sores and on the. Midnight is is possible and would be hard to see. Chromis and Anthias are typically infected with Uronema these days but Pygmy Angels, Wrasse, and clowns are becoming more prevalent to die from it also.
The fish distribution system is so rife with disease these days there really isn’t an observation period anymore especially with multiple fish. You pretty much need to start copper and medicated foods immediately with a FW dip before going into QT.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

Here is an excellent QT process you can follow with a high rate of success.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

 

[K7BMG]

So my plan now is to remove the filter. Probably soak it in vinegar for a week.
Wash the QT and its contents with RO/DI and vinegar, allow to dry.
Rinse twice after it dries and fill with DT water again.
I have a new foam filter I intend to put in the main display today to load it up with beneficial bacteria.

My plan for the next fish.
Acclimate him as I have done before matching closer to the LFS parameters than before.
Then fresh water dip for 5 min then to the QT tank.
Tomorrow Wednesday I will have all of the following medications at my disposal.
Copper Power Blue.
PraziPro
Cupramine
Prime
General Cure
Furan-2
Focus
MetroPlex
KanaPlex

How would you all recommend I start the medications in the QT.
Obviously I can't add them all, and need to start immediately, no more wait and see.

My plan so far is to add Prime to the QT then acclimate the fish.
Start Copper Power immediately once fish is in QT. Bring copper up to 40-50% of therapeutic level.
24 hours later bring up to 100%
Also plan to drop salinity down to the recommended Ich killing 1.009 over the next week to 10 days and hold low for 14 days.
Then bring it back up to 1.025 over the next week to 10 days.

Please advise corrections or combinations of meds.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

So my plan now is to remove the filter. Probably soak it in vinegar for a week.
Wash the QT and its contents with RO/DI and vinegar, allow to dry.
Rinse twice after it dries and fill with DT water again.
I have a new foam filter I intend to put in the main display today to load it up with beneficial bacteria.

My plan for the next fish.
Acclimate him as I have done before matching closer to the LFS parameters than before.
Then fresh water dip for 5 min then to the QT tank.
Tomorrow Wednesday I will have all of the following medications at my disposal.
Copper Power Blue.
PraziPro
Cupramine
Prime
General Cure
Furan-2
Focus
MetroPlex
KanaPlex

How would you all recommend I start the medications in the QT.
Obviously I can't add them all, and need to start immediately, no more wait and see.

My plan so far is to add Prime to the QT then acclimate the fish.
Start Copper Power immediately once fish is in QT. Bring copper up to 40-50% of therapeutic level.
24 hours later bring up to 100%
Also plan to drop salinity down to the recommended Ich killing 1.009 over the next week to 10 days and hold low for 14 days.
Then bring it back up to 1.025 over the next week to 10 days.

Please advise corrections or combinations of meds.

Do not use Prime with copper it will kill all of your fish. Get a bottle of biospira or Fritz9000 bacteria in a bottle to establish the biofilter.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

This is pretty much the standard for QT

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

If you follow this you should have success.

 

[MnFish1]

So my plan now is to remove the filter. Probably soak it in vinegar for a week.
Wash the QT and its contents with RO/DI and vinegar, allow to dry.
Rinse twice after it dries and fill with DT water again.
I have a new foam filter I intend to put in the main display today to load it up with beneficial bacteria.

My plan for the next fish.
Acclimate him as I have done before matching closer to the LFS parameters than before.
Then fresh water dip for 5 min then to the QT tank.
Tomorrow Wednesday I will have all of the following medications at my disposal.
Copper Power Blue.
PraziPro
Cupramine
Prime
General Cure
Furan-2
Focus
MetroPlex
KanaPlex

How would you all recommend I start the medications in the QT.
Obviously I can't add them all, and need to start immediately, no more wait and see.

My plan so far is to add Prime to the QT then acclimate the fish.
Start Copper Power immediately once fish is in QT. Bring copper up to 40-50% of therapeutic level.
24 hours later bring up to 100%
Also plan to drop salinity down to the recommended Ich killing 1.009 over the next week to 10 days and hold low for 14 days.
Then bring it back up to 1.025 over the next week to 10 days.

Please advise corrections or combinations of meds.

are you sure that vinegar kills all parasites? What concentration of vinegar?

Prime + copper is usually not a good idea.

Why are you dropping the salinity when you're dosing copper? (though I have heard this can be more effective than copper alone - and allows you to use a lower dose).

What medications if any are in the display in your LFS? If there are none - why would you think medication would help this situation?

 

[K7BMG]

Just got done reading the OP's part of the QT thread listed.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/
Will follow to the letter.
The OP list his meds. I don't have all of them but seems like I have the recommended ones for QT. ​

 

[K7BMG]

Got it no Prime Copper combination ever.

 

[Sashaka]

Got it no Prime Copper combination ever.

Just wondering... Did you combine copper and Prime with the fish that died? If so, that was the problem.

 

[K7BMG]

are you sure that vinegar kills all parasites? What concentration of vinegar?

Prime + copper is usually not a good idea.

Why are you dropping the salinity when you're dosing copper? (though I have heard this can be more effective than copper alone - and allows you to use a lower dose).

What medications if any are in the display in your LFS? If there are none - why would you think medication would help this situation?

I don't know of an alternate cleaning solution other than bleach.
I use a cup or two of vinegar per gallon of RO/DI, and scrub away.

Got it no prime copper combination ever.

Dropping Salinity to make sure all parasites can't for any reason have the possibility to survive.

I have no idea if any medications are being used at the LFS.
I have asked but they say only if needed, and the medication depends on the problem.

So far as I have been now learning, it seems as if in todays world of reef/fish keeping, medications from the start in the QT are the methods for success.

I tried twice without meds from the start now, and have failed both times.
So I have to conclude a third try of no meds will yield the same result, dead fish in my care. I am not into killing fish, so why would I not try an alternate method using medications from the start?
I guess I don't understand your last question.

 

[K7BMG]

Just wondering... Did you combine copper and Prime with the fish that died? If so, that was the problem.

No I did not.
With the Midnight I did not use any medication.
The first try I only used Furan-2 and Cupramine, I was told this is ok.

 

[MnFish1]

I don't know of an alternate cleaning solution other than bleach.
I use a cup or two of vinegar per gallon of RO/DI, and scrub away.

Got it no prime copper combination ever.

Dropping Salinity to make sure all parasites can't for any reason have the possibility to survive.

I have no idea if any medications are being used at the LFS.
I have asked but they say only if needed, and the medication depends on the problem.

So far as I have been now learning, it seems as if in todays world of reef/fish keeping, medications from the start in the QT are the methods for success.

I tried twice without meds from the start now, and have failed both times.
So I have to conclude a third try of no meds will yield the same result, dead fish in my care. I am not into killing fish, so why would I not try an alternate method using medications from the start?
I guess I don't understand your last question.

You didnt mention bleach in your plan: Wash the QT and its contents with RO/DI and vinegar, allow to dry.