Cyano Killing off Chaeto

steiger33

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Can someone please help? I had a small outbreak of cyan in my sump where I have my chaeto. Well after about a week over 3/4 of my chaeto has died off or disappeared.
I added more from a friend of mine and skimmed the top to remove as much as I can but I don't know what else to do. I am running a Par 38 light over it. Should I add a rw4 in this section to get a little more flow?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will post pics shortly.
 
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Here are some pics of the sump. Not dosing anything.
 
I would add more flow. Upping your water change will help with the extra nutrients that are in the water.
Thank you I will try to add the rw4? Where would be a good spot to add it in there? Also water changes are being done weekly every Friday night and I do 10-15% of the 145g system. Should I bump that to 2 times a week?
 
Just under the Chato with the head. might want to start a little bit of GFO and look at your food regimens. If it's phosphates water changes won't help much.

Make sure there no detritus build up in the bottom of the sump.
Many will run a bag of carbon in there or lr just to give nitrifimg bacteria a place to work.
 
Just under the Chato with the head. might want to start a little bit of GFO and look at your food regimens. If it's phosphates water changes won't help much.

Make sure there no detritus build up in the bottom of the sump.
Many will run a bag of carbon in there or lr just to give nitrifimg bacteria a place to work.
Phosphate are 0

Feeding is every other day.

I also tried the rw4 but now only problem is it pushed around all the little broke up pieces of chaeto into my display now.
 
According to Randy F phosphates are hard to test as they are more often bound to rock and sand. Shell fish contain more Po as do pellets and many marine snow foods. I get cyano the day after feeding th two little fishes marine snow.
 
I would add some flow. You may not need something that strong, but adding anything should help.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria

Chemiclean 1/4 the dose every 5 days
This is a bacteria and loves light ;)

I'd personally pass on the chemiclean. First, it's a bandaid approach and not a long term solution. It's based on erythromycin and not only goes after Cyanobacteria but it also goes after dentritryifying bacteria as well as other beneficial bacteria in our systems and can lead to increased nitrates as well as other subtle problems. In my experience, there are much better ways to combat cyano that have no detrimental impact on the bacterial bed in our systems. If you don't address the problem at it's source, it will come back and continued use of antibiotics even at lower doses is not a healthy approach in my opinion. I don't mean to debate the subject with a seasoned member but I am not a fan of cyano prevention or removal with the use of antibiotics due to the unprejudiced nature (bacterial wise) of that method as it can be counter productive in our systems.

Cyano tends to accumulate in the areas of our tanks with the least amount of flow. This happens to be the areas of our tanks where waste and solids accumulate and the cyano will feed and flourish in those areas. While Po4 may play a role on it's growth, I've found that Po4 has little impact and cyano can grow even in systems with very low levels or Po4. In my experience, the best way to combat cyano is with increased flow, better husbandry including vacuuming where it accumulates as well as UV filtration. A good UV filter thanks properly setup is the one thing that I have seen first hand that can be very helpful beyond the flow and husbandry that doesn't have a negative impact on the biological bed. The UV can stop the spread of it. It's well documented in water treatment studies that UV filtration is a very useful tool in eliminating cyano bacteria from the water column. Unlike denitrying bacteria in our systems which is relegated mostly to the substrate and rocks in our systems, cyano also is found in the water column. While UV filtration, won't totally eliminate it if there are places where the waste accumulates it will prevent it's spread and can place a huge role in eliminating it.

Places like our refugiums tend to be areas with the least amount of flow and even adding a power head in there my not completely eliminate the issue as there will still be dead spots on top of the chaeto where the power head won't address. We also tend to run lighting in our refugiums that is more conducive to nuisance algae growth. Siphoning the cyano off the top of the chaeto as well as manual removal by hand and turning the chaeto regularly will go a long way to keeping the cyano at bay down there while also promoting better chaeto growth. I run filter socks which help keep my refugium much cleaner and the only algae accumulation I see in there is the stuff commonly referred to as cotton candy algae. I also run a good UV filter that is properly setup and I have seen first hand what UV can do for cyano reduction and elimination. I've been running UV filters on my reef for 20 years and am a big fan of them. Not so much for parasite control but for improved water quality demonstrated by increased ORP, prevention of bacterial blooms, cyano reduction and or prevention as well as a healthier overall system.
 
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For years I used a maxi-jet 1200 that I siliconed some ceramic magnets to, but constantly had to clear the intake. Maybe once or twice a week.
Now I use a Tunze 6045. It has a much bigger area that sucks water in and will create flow longer before clogging.
I think just about any proper pump will be similar.
 
I'd personally pass on the chemiclean. It's based on erythromycin and not only goes after Cyanobacteria but it also goes after dentritryifying bacteria as well as other beneficial bacteria in our systems and can lead to increased nitrates as well as other subtle problems. In my experience, there are much better ways to combat cyano that have no detrimental impact on the bacterial bed in our systems.

Cyano tends to accumulate in the areas of our tanks with the least amount of flow. This happens to be the areas of our tanks where waste and solids accumulate and the cyano will feed and flourish in those areas. While Po4 may play a role on it's growth, I've found that Po4 has little impact and cyano can grow even in systems with very low levels or Po4. In my experience, the best way to combat cyano is with increased flow, better husbandry including vacuuming where it accumulates as well as UV filtration. A good UV filter thanks properly setup is the one thing that I have seen first hand that can be very helpful beyond the flow and husbandry that doesn't have a negative impact on the biological bed. The UV can stop the spread of it. It's well documented in water treatment studies that UV filtration is a very useful tool in eliminating cyano bacteria from the water column. Unlike denitrying bacteria in our systems which is relegated mostly to the substrate and rocks in our systems, cyano also is found in the water column. While UV filtration, won't totally eliminate it if there are places where the waste accumulates it will prevent it's spread and can place a huge role in eliminating it.

Places like our refugiums tend to be areas with the least amount of flow and even adding a power head in there my not completely eliminate the issue as there will still be dead spots on top of the chaeto where the power head won't address. We also tend to run lighting in our refugiums that is more conducive to nuisance algae growth. Siphoning the cyano off the top of the chaeto as well as manual removal by hand and turning the chaeto regularly will go a long way to keeping the cyano at bay down there while also promoting better chaeto growth. I run filter socks which help keep my refugium much cleaner and the only algae accumulation I see in there is the stuff commonly referred to as cotton candy algae. I also run a good UV filter that is properly setup and I have seen first hand what UV can do for cyano reduction and elimination. I've been running UV filters on my reef for 20 years and am a big fan of them. Not so much for parasite control but for improved water quality demonstrated by increased ORP, prevention of bacterial blooms, cyano reduction and or prevention as well as a healthier overall system.
And yea, its best to look at the overall health of the system than bandaids. Prevention vs management.
 
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So what is it based off of?

Chemiclean was banned in parts of Europe due to test results showing erythromycin which is in fact an antibiotic and also impacts beneficial bacteria. There are many forms of erythromycin such as Erythromycic Sulfate, Erythromycin Estolate, Erythromycin Stearate, Erythromycin Ethylsuccinate, Erythromycin Ethylsuccinate, and others. Chemiclean just doesn't contain erythromycin succinate. Instead, from what I understand, it contains Erythromycin Sulfate.
 
Chemiclean was banned in parts of Europe due to test results showing erythromycin which is in fact an antibiotic and also impacts beneficial bacteria. There are many forms of erythromycin such as Erythromycic Sulfate, Erythromycin Estolate, Erythromycin Stearate, Erythromycin Ethylsuccinate, Erythromycin Ethylsuccinate, and others. Chemiclean just doesn't contain erythromycin succinate. Instead, from what I understand, it contains Erythromycin Sulfate.
Interesting. So with that information there is false advertising. States "safe for nitrifying bacteria"
I will have to look into this as I use this for my work on cyanobacteria
I dont want to mislead reefers for sure!
I will contact the manufacturer

*Work on cyanobacteria is on hold*
 
Interesting. So with that information there is false advertising. States "safe for nitrifying bacteria"
I will have to look into this as I use this for my work on cyanobacteria
I dont want to mislead reefers for sure!
I will contact the manufacturer

*Work on cyanobacteria is on hold*
I am not knocking Boyd Enterprises. They make great products and Chemiclean will temporarily eliminate cyano. I will tell you that Boyd will not disclose their ingredients nor will they confirm the presence of antibiotics. Their ingredients is a closely guarded secret by their own admission. While they may show you US based EPA tests showing it safe for use in our tanks, it isn't available in certain European countries because of the presence of others forms of Erythromycin based on tests in Germany. Those kinds of ingredients have much stronger regulations in Europe when it comes to over the counter sales in any form. People in Germany even referred to it as a scandal.

They (Boyd) states that it doesn't contain Erythromycin "Succinate" so really they aren't false advertising but while it may not kill all denitrifying bacteria, antibiotics aren't all that selective in the bacteria that they target and some benificial bacteria including dentitfying bacteria will be impacted and inadvertently targeted. Plus there is really no way to quantify how much denitrifying bacteria is impacted in our systems. Does that mean that the use of Chemiclean in your system will crash your tank? Certainly not, but treating our tanks with chemicals that target bacteria is never a great approach as it weakens the most important and complex part of our tanks ecosystems.

Here is an older article on the subject. It was written in German so you would need to use an online translator unless of course you speak German. http://archiv.korallenriff.de/06_chemieclean.html
 
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