Depressing morning

[LARedstickreefer]

My guess would be ammonia and low oxygen. Stray current seems unlikely since your fish are unable to come into contact with a solid ground connection. (You need a path for current to flow).
-Matt

 

[brandon429]

which part of this post/tank build upholds any rules from the fish disease forum


what forum on the entire site has the most documented full tank fish losses

going off raw data logged, none of the causes listed here so far even have one readable thread (he's ruled out electrical current)

but the fish disease forum, that's ten years worth of these events. you ruled out all other causes in the leadup to page two here, and disease was hinted at it seems on page one but never presented as the only source of known material for this event. 02 loss isn't a risk in reefing.

if someone were to collate all the posts about fish loss in one way or another to this board, 90% or more will trace back to allowing disease in the tank, 10% are the other items like stuck heaters/contaminations/ no determination

the thing that is 90% most likely hasn't been mentioned yet here.

 

[brandon429]

the first thing you rule out is disease, and until that gets ruled out by your specific sourcing + prep and fallow habits for the tank, CUC included (see Jay's biosecurity article) you wouldn't move beyond that as the causative once you verify no sprays/glass cleaner was applied (I've killed fish that way before) and once you verify that heater didn't stick on/off and or stray current

given those as exclusions, tank parameters are rarely a reason for mass fish kill, disease becomes the most likely.

 

[TheReefDiary]

dang many, sorry for you loss. A lot of people say they're just fish but if you love this hobby losing your fish sucks. Especially if you've had them for a while.

If it wasn't electrical shock could only be a few things to kill of the entire tank. Wouldn't it have to be an ammonia swing? High nitrites? Large temperature swing? Or lack of oxygen in the tank?

Not really sure what else it would be if not electrical shock, especially considering it was over the course of 8 hrs or so.

 

[TheReefDiary]

the first thing you rule out is disease, and until that gets ruled out by your specific sourcing + prep and fallow habits for the tank, CUC included (see Jay's biosecurity article) you wouldn't move beyond that as the causative once you verify no sprays/glass cleaner was applied (I've killed fish that way before) and once you verify that heater didn't stick on/off and or stray current

given those as exclusions, tank parameters are rarely a reason for mass fish kill, disease becomes the most likely.

What disease would wipe them all out in the course of a night though? You'd expect at least a couple to be alive out of that list wouldn't you? Genuinely curious.

 

[brandon429]

spend 25 mins reading posts in the fish disease forum, self-study for that, you learn the preventative steps along the way while reading up and seeing Jay's diagnostics in action.

-if you have any standout patterns for fish loss to link for us to read, or relay us to read another thread that better explains the mix here/ benefits of 2 week qt/ feel free to post.

in tank diagnostics there's straight up guessing, or there's % likelihood relay

interested to see other's % likelihood options/breakdowns

 

[stinkydavis]

My assumption is that there was a big ammonia spike in the tank. I am thinking back to my water moving process and realizing my mistake.
Sad to have lost all of them.

 

[brandon429]

There is some association in the disease forum with water changes/tank disturbances bringing out latent disease, it takes reading and pattern watching in there to spot there, they're there.


nobody is sure how that works, they do the best they can with the matter. you being over 2 weeks delayed after getting the used tank to your home rules out gas events etc, delayed disease onset due to X stressor unknown can't be ruled out.

if you added anything new that's wet from a pet store that's a disease risk

if you didn't, and it's strictly just the same items you moved here on the 3rd, then good luck finding a % causative that isn't a guess, you've ruled out the major options already.


you can't have a 3 week delayed ammonia spike, that's what everyone subs in for fish disease/all the time/blames delayed cycle events.

have you posted about adding anything new from a pet store, to the tank, since it's been in your home? that's a disease input vector, if so

 

[Karen00]

Oh wow, I am so sorry for your loss! I had this happen to a reasonably mature freshwater tank many years ago. I tipped the balance from a good stocking level to an unsuitable stocking level too quickly. Within 24 hrs almost all fish were gone. Ironically ammonia and nitrites showed 0 when I tested the next day but nitrates were through the roof which means ammonia and nitrites did spike but were brought under control quickly leaving nitrates. To this day I don't know if it was the ammonia/nitrite spikes that did the fish in or the high nitrates (or maybe a combination of all three). That was one of the worst days of my life knowing it was my fault. I hope you find the source of your problem so you know what needs to be corrected.

 

[Garf]

Never seen a latent disease (whatever that is) kill everything in one night.

What disease would wipe them all out in the course of a night though? You'd expect at least a couple to be alive out of that list wouldn't you? Genuinely curious.

Yes, you would, I agree.

. I am thinking back to my water moving process and realizing my mistake.

What do you think you did?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

@brandon429, I think you need to dumb down and be a little more clear with your points. I believe in your mind you’re being obvious. But I am reading your posts and am a little confused as to what you are trying to convey.
The OP just crashed his whole tank and is just trying to figure out why.
This is a learning process, not everyone processes things the same way or rate.
I think what you are trying to say has value, I just think you need to convey it differently.
Hugs!

 

[brandon429]

I think me saying fish disease is clear, and you can be more direct when trying to disagree with someone/ I won't get mad

Here's the summarized guesses for loss so far:

Moving the tank two weeks ago

Oxygen loss


Ammonia noncontrol

And then fish disease

Which of these causatives has the most documentation on the site? The disease risk, not 02 loss without cause or delayed ammonia loss.


Me asking the op if he's added anything wet lately, was also clear and an attempt at sorting out disease input risks.

 

[brandon429]

Its always shocking to me when in full fish loss threads, disease has to be argued for to even be considered, vs consideration #1/all the fish died

 

[TheReefDiary]

Thats what I'm saying a total Wipeout in one night doesn't seem like disease. Again I'm a complete newb and idiot but logic says to me a disease seems highly unlikely.

 

[brandon429]

if that's your take from reading a while in the disease forum, ok. everyone has given their best guess, final step is for the op to guess at the most pleasing cause, and try and reverse it. any method chosen as recourse will be guessing, twice over. At least ruling out disease, by implementing specific steps in the disease forum (fallow/qt) rules out the single most likely cause we can possibly read about for a fish kill event.


*side note
when I read the fish disease forum right now, I'm not seeing folks declining disease as an option here, doing assessment work there, it means they could be missing something in the recommend

also
can we please link an article, writeup, or anything that counter explains fish kills in reef tanks when voltage was ruled out, contamination and heater issues (all discussed prior page)

I would like to see someone's best guess in action, used in another thread to prevent a new fish kill when he buys/inputs a new round of fish from the pet store.

I referred us to the disease forum, that's declined as an option, refer me onto another forum/link I can read other than post guesses here that explain fish kills in reef tanks. even if it's not found as the cure, it will be diverse/supporting research to relay here

 

[TheReefDiary]

Its always shocking to me when in full fish loss threads, disease has to be argued for to even be considered, vs consideration #1/all the fish died

I don't think anyone is saying it can't be disease, but what diseases would be rapid onset and completely wipe out everyone in the tank in 8hrs?

My question isn't out of disagreement, more out of confusion.

 

[Jekyl]

Any cleaning or chemical products used in the vicinity of the tank?

 

[stinkydavis]

No but I think it was neglectful planing for the move. I feel confident if I didn’t have to move the tank I wouldn’t be posting this thread.
I believe where I went wrong is using water soaked through the substrate. At the time I didn’t even give it any thought but my assumption is I pulled a lot of waste products out and when placed in the new tank gave it nowhere to go and broke down into a massive ammonia spike.

 

[KrisReef]

Op mentioned “Every single fish and snail.”

What disease kills snails and fish, overnight?

Would a toxicology concern from? Be more likely than common diseases found in fish tanks?

Bare bottom tank.
new set up.
Mystery

 

[stinkydavis]

Op mentioned “Every single fish and snail.”

What disease kills snails and fish, overnight?

Would a toxicology concern from? Be more likely than common diseases found in fish tanks?

Bare bottom tank.
new set up.
Mystery

Yes. It wasn’t always a bare bottom tank. I just didn’t put sand back into after the move think close monitoring would be sufficient.
like I stated it was neglectful planning on my part.