Depressing morning

[Garf]

As long as we’re all having a punt on what caused this, I guess your heater had a freak out and cooked everything.

 

[jfoahs04]

which part of this post/tank build upholds any rules from the fish disease forum


what forum on the entire site has the most documented full tank fish losses

going off raw data logged, none of the causes listed here so far even have one readable thread (he's ruled out electrical current)

but the fish disease forum, that's ten years worth of these events. you ruled out all other causes in the leadup to page two here, and disease was hinted at it seems on page one but never presented as the only source of known material for this event. 02 loss isn't a risk in reefing.

if someone were to collate all the posts about fish loss in one way or another to this board, 90% or more will trace back to allowing disease in the tank, 10% are the other items like stuck heaters/contaminations/ no determination

the thing that is 90% most likely hasn't been mentioned yet here.

The problem with your approach is that you're so focused on general trends that you're ignoring the details of this particular instance. Sure, some 90% of fish losses in this hobby are fairly easy to connect to several common diseases. But given the details it appears far more likely that this is an atypical case.

In this instance, the OP had 10(!) fish go from alive and healthy to dead, literally overnight. I've been in this hobby for 20 years and I've never seen even the worst outbreak of velvet (or any disease) kill that fast. You like statistics and data - can you point to any examples where velvet (or any other disease) have killed 10 fish in about 12 hours? He also lost an invert which would not be susceptible to any fish disease. So is that coincidence?

No, something else happened here. It may not be an 02 issue, and the more I read about the tank transfer (neglected old tank, transferring dirty water/waste, moving the tank into the garage etc.), the less likely I think 02 is the case. But all of those factors considered, it's almost certainly something other than disease (parameter issue, contaminant, or equipment failure).

 

[stinkydavis]

The problem with your approach is that you're so focused on general trends that you're ignoring the details of this particular instance. Sure, some 90% of fish losses in this hobby are fairly easy to connect to several common diseases. But given the details it appears far more likely that this is an atypical case.

In this instance, the OP had 10(!) fish go from alive and healthy to dead, literally overnight. I've been in this hobby for 20 years and I've never seen even the worst outbreak of velvet (or any disease) kill that fast. You like statistics and data - can you point to any examples where velvet (or any other disease) have killed 10 fish in about 12 hours? He also lost an invert which would not be susceptible to any fish disease. So is that coincidence?

No, something else happened here. It may not be an 02 issue, and the more I read about the tank transfer (neglected old tank, transferring dirty water/waste, moving the tank into the garage etc.), the less likely I think 02 is the case. But all of those factors considered, it's almost certainly something other than disease (parameter issue, contaminant, or equipment failure).

Thank you haha. But I didn’t not Frank’s any water from the neglected tank. It was from my 75 which had weekly 10% water changes and parameters check every 3-4 days because we didn’t even know the the neglected tank had fish and really was out of options about placement for them.
I will say the I checked the ammonia level around 11 and it was almost 4ppm. I don’t know how fast fish start to give ammonia off when they die and when I came out one was half sucked into the wave maker.

 

[Crustaceon]

A disease the spontaneously kills all fish in a system and is always the cause of mass fish death in all cases:

Sorry for your loss dude. As mentioned, check all of your electrical accessories. If anything smells “burnt” or like ozone, remove.

 

[Fredrxn]

Sorry for ur loss…this is heartbreaking we have a lot of time and stress,,and money in are tanks

 

[RFGuy_KCCO]

Sorry for your loss. There is a good chance the substrate, which you removed during the tank move, previously contained much of the nitrifying bacteria supporting the tank. You lost a good portion, perhaps most, of the ability of your tank to convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrate with that decision, unfortunately.

 

[MnFish1]

Not sure if others have asked - could there have been a power failure overnight? (Which you should have noticed with your clocks, etc anyway) - in any case sorry to hear this.

 

[stinkydavis]

Not sure if others have asked - could there have been a power failure overnight? (Which you should have noticed with your clocks, etc anyway) - in any case sorry to hear this.

No. I think me thinking I could just monitor closely with a bear bottom caused a very quick and deathly ammonia spike.

 

[MnFish1]

No. I think me thinking I could just monitor closely with a bear bottom caused a very quick and deathly ammonia spike.

Oh - sorry - so you had added a bunch of fish quickly to a new tank? IMHO - the bare bottom makes no difference. Now - if was a bare bottom tank - with no rock/bacteria - true enough

 

[Reefer Matt Verified Media Partner]

So sorry for this tragedy! As you try to figure out what happened, know you have the support of the reefing community. One consideration I haven't seen mentioned is possible outside contamination from a child, partner, etc, either purposefully or accidental. I hope you recover from this, and wish you well.

 

[Tamberav]

I believe electrical shock. How else could an entire tank die off

I am doubtful of this just because stray voltage doesn't kill everything and to create a circuit you need two faulty items and your CGFI would have tripped. Fish are not grounded when swimming around in the water.

Do you have a thermometer? If the temp got too hot, it could certainly do this.

Not adding the sand back should not matter as long as you have lots of live rock. However if your live rock was filthy and depending how it was transported... it's possible to create ammonia.

 

[Jedi1199]

Just finding this thread.

In my personal opinion, I doubt the theory of ammonia spike, although I do not completely discount it.

When i did my tank upgrade, I used 100% of the old sand as-is. I never noticed any issues with ammonia or anything else.

As mentioned. Disease is a possibility, although I tend to shy away from that as the answer for the reason that it just is so absolutely unusual for a desiese to wipe out a full tank that fast. Usually it happens over the course of a couple days, not overnight.

Not sure if it was mentioned but how long was this tank running before the die off? Was it moved yesterday and dead today? I personally have experience with killing off an entire tank this way when performing a large water change. The water I used was far too cold and the next day, everything in the tank was dead.

 

[Slocke]

IMO most likely is:

1. Oxygen loss
2. Sudden change in parameters
3. Toxin (or something chemical that caused a massive oxygen loss)
4. Equipment malfunction

Disease is unlikely as a disease would not be able to affect fish and snails. And a disease that can wipe out an entire population overnight would die out too so would not exist.

What worries me is something that can kill all snails. Snails are both tough and able to escape to fresh air?

 

[killer2001]

@brandon429, I think you need to dumb down and be a little more clear with your points. I believe in your mind you’re being obvious. But I am reading your posts and am a little confused as to what you are trying to convey.
The OP just crashed his whole tank and is just trying to figure out why.
This is a learning process, not everyone processes things the same way or rate.
I think what you are trying to say has value, I just think you need to convey it differently.
Hugs!

I've read a lot of posts from brandon and from what I've deduced I don't believe English is his first language judging by sentence structure.

Furthermore, I believe OP could have said his water temp got to 100*F and heater exploded and brandon still might argue fish disease. Then he will state "we" have done studies showing eggs or cysts from said fish disease got lodged into the conductive circuit of various heaters and caused catastrophic failure!

 

[MnFish1]

which part of this post/tank build upholds any rules from the fish disease forum


what forum on the entire site has the most documented full tank fish losses

going off raw data logged, none of the causes listed here so far even have one readable thread (he's ruled out electrical current)

but the fish disease forum, that's ten years worth of these events. you ruled out all other causes in the leadup to page two here, and disease was hinted at it seems on page one but never presented as the only source of known material for this event. 02 loss isn't a risk in reefing.

if someone were to collate all the posts about fish loss in one way or another to this board, 90% or more will trace back to allowing disease in the tank, 10% are the other items like stuck heaters/contaminations/ no determination

the thing that is 90% most likely hasn't been mentioned yet here.

This is not likely a parasite or disease in my opinion. Unless - there were symptoms the night before - it's something that happened during the night. The words

Climate controlled and garage come to mind. The pH also dropped. Now - a pH drop should make ammonia 'less toxic' - But - there are also chemicals and different CO2 levels in garages as compared to homes.

To me this is a chemical or a power issue causing a low O2 issue, and subsequently a death (or 2) which caused a rapid cascade of deaths.

 

[MnFish1]

I don't think anyone is saying it can't be disease, but what diseases would be rapid onset and completely wipe out everyone in the tank in 8hrs?

My question isn't out of disagreement, more out of confusion.

None. EDIT - BTW - a fish disease - like velvet, etc - would not wipe out invertebrates as well. Now - I suppose - one could say this would be possible - if the ammonia levels were high - which they were not.

 

[MnFish1]

if that's your take from reading a while in the disease forum, ok. everyone has given their best guess, final step is for the op to guess at the most pleasing cause, and try and reverse it. any method chosen as recourse will be guessing, twice over. At least ruling out disease, by implementing specific steps in the disease forum (fallow/qt) rules out the single most likely cause we can possibly read about for a fish kill event.


*side note
when I read the fish disease forum right now, I'm not seeing folks declining disease as an option here, doing assessment work there, it means they could be missing something in the recommend

also
can we please link an article, writeup, or anything that counter explains fish kills in reef tanks when voltage was ruled out, contamination and heater issues (all discussed prior page)

I would like to see someone's best guess in action, used in another thread to prevent a new fish kill when he buys/inputs a new round of fish from the pet store.

I referred us to the disease forum, that's declined as an option, refer me onto another forum/link I can read other than post guesses here that explain fish kills in reef tanks. even if it's not found as the cure, it will be diverse/supporting research to relay here

I respond quite often - perhaps multiple times/day. This does not seem like a disease. Why?

1. There are no new additions.
2. Though there was a stressor - there were no symptoms.
3. There are multiple other explanations

Among them:

1. a fish was injured in transferred - and died - causing an ammonia issue - causing another fish to die and a cascasde of disaster.
2. The rock was not aerated enough during the transfer - leading one to believe that there was plenty of ammonia processing bacteria - when in fact some had died - which also caused a problem
3. I'm really - as I already said - am sorry for the OP - who has a disaster. That said - the vast likelihood is that something involved in the transfer caused this - as compared to an overnight disease (again Just IMHO).

The key words here to me are 'climate controlled' and 'garage'. Also the possibility that too much 'old' dirty water was used in the new tank. The quickness after the transfer - also mitigates against disease - unless I misunderstood the timeline again - IMHO

 

[MoshJosh]

I haven't experienced it in saltwater, but I have definitely electrified a tank/pond. While it did shock the hell out of me, the fish and snails were unharmed. So I'm not sure the shock would have killed them, but certainty a malfunctioning heater could have for a number of reasons. Sorry for your loss.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I suspect water and suspect something entered tank whether it be chemical, atmospheric or toxin such as pet urine, candle burning, paint fumes. . . something in that category.
Hate to ask, but any children that may have stuck foreign object in tank or sump ?

 

[jabberwock]

Sorry that this happened... I can relate

What , if anything is stored in the garage? Do you park a car or lawnmower in there? Got cans of paint or WD-40 laying around?