Do fish have immunity?

[mindme]

Hudu, that worm Idea came to me at the very beginning of the hobby when all we had was Wardley Flake food.

marine fish consisted of a few damsels and everyone had trouble keeping them alive for very long as even liquid copper wasn't available so I used copper pennies. All fish had spots so we had to keep adjusting how many pennies to put in the water because the longer you left the pennies in, the more copper was dissolved in the water.

At the time I was keeping fresh water fish and I used to give them blackworms, tubifex and earthworms.

I decided to try them on my 7 blue devils and in a few weeks, I discovered the fish had no more spots and I didn't have to use pennies any more.

Those blue devils all had clear fins but after the worms, one of them developed beautiful blue fins while the other 6 fish remained with clear fins. A few more weeks and those fish spawned and kept spawning in a gooseneck barnacle shell.

Ich spots will disappear on a fish on their own, even without treatment. It's part of their life cycle. It's the reason all these medications that don't work for ich always have people claiming it works in the reviews. They dose, the spots disappear naturally and they think the product worked. But then it'll come back about a month later.

The copper you put in the water would kill any new parasites. Removing the pennies would not remove the copper source, it would only stop it from adding more(and possibly killing your fish).

You did a QT on those fish basically.

 

[atoll]

What does it matter that I lost a naso in QT 18 months ago in the first place? Especially in the middle of a discussion about fish immunity?

If you can't understand why I would think you were talking about my current fish when you asked about my naso, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I think the fact the 2 of you are harping on this rather than discussion the topic of fish immunity and that living with parasites is not immunity is telling. You have nothing to support your claims other than going through someones post history, posting about a thread 18 months ago completely out of context, then accusing me of things because I don't remember.

Pathetic.

Yawwwnnn. Moving right on.

 

[atoll]

30 years, many aquariums no QT and no fish lost from disease or parasites. OK so my longest tank was set up for only 7 years but fish corals and rock were often moved from tank to tank apart from when I moved house 3 times.
I bought fish from various LFS that some suggested you are bound to catch itch from. Nobody has been able to explain why my fish never got sick or covered in parasites even though some showed signs of them soon after introduction.
If my tanks and fish were/are not immune then how come my tanks and fish never experienced such outbreaks and deaths? I haven't used any form of medication in 30 years and admit I know only the rudiments of fish disease and parasites but I consider that a good thing as I often learn by experience alone.
I have been told I have been lucky and that sooner or later a major outbreak will happen, 30 years and counting is a long time to wait. I am also a lair apparently yet I am not alone in what I report. I have friends here in the UK who practice similar to myself. I have broken many rules in the book, not Paul's obviously but those who have far more experience of fish diseases and parasites and advocate QT as the only real way to keep healthy fish.
I like the lucky theory but just wish it would rub off on me when I buy a lottery ticket so I could buy the reef aquarium of my dreams. In the meantime this one will have to do I guess.

 

[HuduVudu]

What does it matter that I lost a naso in QT 18 months ago in the first place? Especially in the middle of a discussion about fish immunity?

If you can't understand why I would think you were talking about my current fish when you asked about my naso, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I think the fact the 2 of you are harping on this rather than discussion the topic of fish immunity and that living with parasites is not immunity is telling. You have nothing to support your claims other than going through someones post history, posting about a thread 18 months ago completely out of context, then accusing me of things because I don't remember.

Pathetic.

Are you done?

Just move on, you are convincing no one and you look dishonest.

 

[HuduVudu]

Hudu, that worm Idea came to me at the very beginning of the hobby when all we had was Wardley Flake food.

marine fish consisted of a few damsels and everyone had trouble keeping them alive for very long as even liquid copper wasn't available so I used copper pennies. All fish had spots so we had to keep adjusting how many pennies to put in the water because the longer you left the pennies in, the more copper was dissolved in the water.

At the time I was keeping fresh water fish and I used to give them blackworms, tubifex and earthworms.

I decided to try them on my 7 blue devils and in a few weeks, I discovered the fish had no more spots and I didn't have to use pennies any more.

Those blue devils all had clear fins but after the worms, one of them developed beautiful blue fins while the other 6 fish remained with clear fins. A few more weeks and those fish spawned and kept spawning in a gooseneck barnacle shell.

This is probably 1972 when no one was keeping salt water fish much less spawning them.
Of course there was no computers or cell phones so I couldn't tell anyone about it for many years but I did publish an article in FAMMA magazine.

I posted the pictures of that blue devil on here and his eggs. Photobucket lost the majority of my pictures so I will have to look for the original print or go through my thread on here but it is almost 400 pages long so I am not going to do it now. I know it's in my book someplace.

Oh wait, I went on my old thread and searched for blue devil.

Here he is. This was one of the first salt water fish imported to the US in 1971.

And his eggs

Don't tell anyone but my stupid Pakastani won't eat anything but white worms. Sometimes if I crash the colonies he will plug his nose and eat the red worms but not for long.

I was in the hobby in 1982. I couldn't even keep the damsels alive then. I don't think many understand what a feat it was to do this. I always wanted to have breeding salt water fish, but that would require me to keep them alive.

My first tank didn't look dissimaliar from yours. I used liquid copper because of the great advances in the hobby . I just shake my head when I look back. The only reason I was able to have fish at all was because I worked in a place that sold salt water, lol that wasn't by accident.

I am shocked at how many different fish will go for the white worms. It makes getting very stressed fish back on track a lot easier. There is always the ugly transition between the fish consuming everything natural to the tank and still being hungry to ok I will eat your crap prepared foods. The worms definitely help with that.

Also the colors on my fish are awesome. I attribute that 100% to the worms.

Now I need to get more of the smaller earth worms out of my compost. They are harder to culture.

 

[WVNed]

I have been acclimating fish and adding them and the water they came in to my system a long time.
It works for me. Do what works for you in your tank.
I only keep easy fish is what I tell people.

 

[mindme]

Are you done?

Just move on, you are convincing no one and you look dishonest.

No I'm not done.

Why do people think they own a thread or something? This thread is about fish immunity. If you don't want to discuss that, maybe you should move on.

Paul already has a giant thread on this forum, you'll notice I have 0 posts in it.

 

[HuduVudu]

No I'm not done.

Why do people think they own a thread or something? This thread is about fish immunity. If you don't want to discuss that, maybe you should move on.

Paul already has a giant thread on this forum, you'll notice I have 0 posts in it.

You look like a fool, and this is your right.

But please continue to post and show the world what you know. No one will stop you.

 

[mindme]

You look like a fool, and this is your right.

But please continue to post and show the world what you know. No one will stop you.

Yeah, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me. Right and wrong exists regardless of the popularity.

If anyone is interested in actual discussion about fish immunity, they can wade through the personal attacks from a few of you and find real information.

What they won't see is any of you actually providing a real response or even showing basic understanding of immunity.

The fact of the matter is that any organism that has parasites is not immune to them, regardless of if the symptoms exist or not. People with herpes for example are always infected with the virus, even if they only get a cold sore every couple of years. You don't look at the person without symptoms and declare they are immune to it.

But that's exactly what's going on here with fish, and it's total misinformation.

Funny enough, all 3 of you could just ignore me. But the truth is, you just don't want people opposing your opinions and so you are trying to attack me into shutting up. Not going to happen.

 

[HuduVudu]

Yeah, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me. Right and wrong exists regardless of the popularity.

If anyone is interested in actual discussion about fish immunity, they can wade through the personal attacks from a few of you and find real information.

What they won't see is any of you actually providing a real response or even showing basic understanding of immunity.

The fact of the matter is that any organism that has parasites is not immune to them, regardless of if the symptoms exist or not. People with herpes for example are always infected with the virus, even if they only get a cold sore every couple of years. You don't look at the person without symptoms and declare they are immune to it.

But that's exactly what's going on here with fish, and it's total misinformation.

You are no one's saviour.

People are adults and they can make up their own minds without having something shoved down their throat.

Please continue to shove your "information" down everyone's throats in the name of truth, because I am sure that you are 100% correct in what your saying.

 

[BirdFish5000]

Hey mods; could use some cleanup in here

 

[mindme]

You are no one's saviour.

People are adults and they can make up their own minds without having something shoved down their throat.

Please continue to shove your "information" down everyone's throats in the name of truth, because I am sure that you are 100% correct in what your saying.

I am who I am.

People are adults, and most bad decisions are made because people are given misinformation on topics. The truth doesn't mind being questioned.

 

[atoll]

Yeah, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks of me. Right and wrong exists regardless of the popularity.

If anyone is interested in actual discussion about fish immunity, they can wade through the personal attacks from a few of you and find real information.

What they won't see is any of you actually providing a real response or even showing basic understanding of immunity.

The fact of the matter is that any organism that has parasites is not immune to them, regardless of if the symptoms exist or not. People with herpes for example are always infected with the virus, even if they only get a cold sore every couple of years. You don't look at the person without symptoms and declare they are immune to it.

But that's exactly what's going on here with fish, and it's total misinformation.

Funny enough, all 3 of you could just ignore me. But the truth is, you just don't want people opposing your opinions and so you are trying to attack me into shutting up. Not going to happen.

I think you will find you first started with the insults.
So you have nothing worthwhile to post on here anymore or Pauls thread come to that.
Now, I posed a question a little few posts back, so great wise one would you be so kind to give me the wisdom of your knowledge on it. You like many have yet to come up with any creditable fact never mind theory to my question posed.

 

[BirdFish5000]

"
The fact of the matter is that any organism that has parasites is not immune to them, regardless of if the symptoms exist or not. People with herpes for example are always infected with the virus, even if they only get a cold sore every couple of years. You don't look at the person without symptoms and declare they are immune to it.

But that's exactly what's going on here with fish, and it's total misinformation."

Yup

 

[mindme]

I have been acclimating fish and adding them and the water they came in to my system a long time.
It works for me. Do what works for you in your tank.
I only keep easy fish is what I tell people.

Nice fish.

Did that for 10 years also. It only takes 1, and you'll probably start to QT everything as a result. I hope you never have it happen.

I haven't bought a fish in over a year because I refuse to ever again throw a fish back in my tank unless I know it doesn't have velvet. Also adding to that is I know I have ich in my tank, so I think it kind of cruel for me to throw a fish in there knowing so.

 

[mindme]

I think you will find you first started with the insults.
So you have nothing worthwhile to post on here anymore or Pauls thread come to that.
Now, I posed a question a little few posts back, so great wise one would you be so kind to give me the wisdom of your knowledge on it. You like many have yet to come up with any creditable fact never mind theory to my question posed.

Considering how much Paul calls people noobs, and puts down anyone who hasn't had a tank up for many years, I find that difficult to believe.

I'm sorry if I missed your question, can you point it out to me? I'll go look for it.

 

[atoll]

"
The fact of the matter is that any organism that has parasites is not immune to them, regardless of if the symptoms exist or not. People with herpes for example are always infected with the virus, even if they only get a cold sore every couple of years. You don't look at the person without symptoms and declare they are immune to it.

But that's exactly what's going on here with fish, and it's total misinformation."

Yup

I believe there is itch and white spot in my aquarium I just dont see it. Like herpes maybe one day if things go bottom up they will show. Doesn't herpes break out in cold sores when people are run down or not in 100% good health. Something triggers it to show itself.
Quote on herpes recurring outbreaks
"Triggers for recurrence — Illness, stress, sunlight, and fatigue can trigger recurrent herpes outbreaks."

 

[HuduVudu]

People are adults, and most bad decisions are made because people are given misinformation on topics. The truth doesn't mind being questioned.

Define bad decisions? Define misinformation?

More importantly who defines these. I see that you think that you do.

The truth doesn't give two squirrels about what you or I think or advocate, but you seem to think it does. The truth can not be questioned, because it is the truth. People that say they have the truth, for example yourself. They indeed can be questioned. The funny part is people that say they have the truth seem to miss all of the nuiance that the truth holds, and don't really want to be questioned.

Keep proclaiming your absolute correctness for all the world to see.

 

[HuduVudu]

Doesn't herpes break out in cold sores when people are run down or not in 100% good health. Something triggers it to show itself.

Can confirm. It is always stress.

 

[mindme]

I believe there is itch and white spot in my aquarium I just dont see it. Like herpes maybe one day if thi gs go bottom up they will show. Doesn't herpes break out in cold sores when people are run down or not in 100% good health. Something triggers it to show itself.

Ich management is very common. I do it myself. It's not a disease that kills that often. You don't need to do a bunch of crazy stuff to do it, and it doesn't mean your fish are immune or anything like that.

Velvet on the other hand can not be managed and will wipe your entire tank if it gets in the system within days. It's a good bit like ich, but has a life cycle of a few days rather than 2+ months. It often starts on the gills, where the fish has no slime coat protection and isn't noticable. Ich can also do that, but doesn't seem to happen as often.

Stress can be a trigger for herpes symptom, also other illness like a cold/flu is common to trigger it. So a good bit like fish in that way as well.

Which is why as I was saying before, I've never seen a single spot on my Naso, but then on my blue tang I see spots about once a month or so. Not a bunch of spots, between 1 and 3 normally. I never see spots on my mimic tang, however I do see him scratching. I do not see my sailfin scratching, but I see the occasional dot about once every 3 months. My sixline wrasse and my cleaner wrasse I see scratch occasionally, but never spots. Same goes for my diamond goby, but he also loves to get cleaned by the shrimp. All my other fish never show any symptoms, which is basically 4 cardinals, a watchman goby and a royal grammar.

Same tank, and every fish has it's own different response to the parasite. Because they are known to have different levels of slime coat. It's not a surprise that the blue tang shows the worst symptoms, it has the thinnest slime coat.

The white dots are not the actual parasite. The white spots is where their body is healing. Fish actually heal really really fast, so they heal up and it looks like the spot has "fallen off". The white dots are basically the end of the cycle.

The way it disappears is what fuels so many misconceptions. You have to understand the lifecycle.