Still waiting to hear how that Achilles tang works out in your tank without quarantine..
I don't see fish being sicker today than 40 years ago, but that's just me.
I like to wait for the fish in the store to be covered in spots, flukes or velvet covered flukes. (which are kind of nice looking).Then I offer the store owner five bucks for the fish, cure the thing and have a nice cheap, healthy fish.
Then I go out to dinner and have a nice glass of Pino Noir.
I honestly don't know how many people stay in this hobby if you are having so much trouble with diseases. Maybe my fish are dying like flies and I just don't notice it, I could be senile. I need Humble to come over here and check me and my tank. The fish could all have flukes or flounders and I can't see it.
Haven't I seen you @atoll doing write ups about oxydators and such? I thought it was you some time ago. My memory could be off. I am very pleased to hear about your success and that is great and all. If you are running UV, Diatom filters, Oxydators, etc. It is best that you are forthcoming with all of that info so that a member thinking they can just plop and drop, mimicing the methods you all who don't quarantine use, they don't take a chance of nuking their tank. Just a thought.Same here Paul. I know nothing of fish diseases and to be honest I don't really want to know, 36 years in the hobby and I haven't seen any serious diseases in over 30 years so not quite as long as you. I think I must be doing something seriously wrong as going by many threads on here my tank should have cashed many times. I have put fish in my tank with white spot only for there to be no sign of it 36 hours later, how strange. I break all the rules, well not my rules you understand but my fish persist in staying healthy. living long lives (unless they carpet surf) and many spawn regular. I know nothing (well very little) about all these wonderful treatments that often kill the fish with the parasites which is one way of dealing with it I guess.
Oh wow.Cheap fish - but they don't mind paying for a $3000+ Aurora fixture, a $250+ Kessil Fuge light, $800+ on Radions, or $3000+ on a slick GeoReef's Sump.
Tech Toys > Life
Let's pull a quote xD:
"over priced everything!! I get you have to make profit but why is a blue hippo tang the size of a quarter 90 dollars and 45 everywhere else? And $180 for a purple tang that was also extremely small? Everything in that store is a rip off and the quality is not there. These are fish, not hand crafted collectables. Anybody can sell fish, there is nothing they do to justify paying double for a fish. Screw this place."
;Sour smh
I would highly recommend everyone to use a good skimmer. Very vital to a healthy tank. I also agree 100% with you and Paul on nutrition etc. I just think its important for people to know that you use an oxydator, whether it may or may not be a large part of your success. Fair? There are several key factors that are very important for someone trying to do what you guys do, IMO. I am not knocking it by any means. I am on the far other side and highly recommend proper QT. That doesn't mean its the only way.
. I appreciate all the great info about the state of our distribution system, but then it seems to devolve into the "to quarantine or not to quarantine" discussion. It seems to me that @4FordFamily and @HotRocks along with @Humblefish have experience with a high quantity of recent fish purchases. Many more fish than the average hobbyist would have so it stands to reason they would have a better handle on the state of disease in the distribution system. I hear the same type of reasoning from the anti-vaccine folks around here. "My kids never gotten measles". Sorry, I digress. I think the original question in the thread was "is fish disease on the rise"? If anyone is disputing that it is I'd like to hear how many fish they have been buying and plopping in their tanks compared with the numbers that those folks I mention above have had.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY has talked about Oxydators on here and many FB groups (I own the aquarium users oxydator FB group) and .com groups in fact as far as I am aware until I and a few friends experimented with them all those years ago I don't think people had used them in marine aquaria. Of course, I consider them an important part of my success but it is just one piece of the jigsaw. I even talk about Oxydaors in my sleep, just put oxydator into google but I am not atoll posting in them all
BTW doesn't Lasse on here keep his reef similar and he also uses Oxydators. I have a reeing long friend who also does similar to me. Of course, there are differences between us esp as I don't live near a beach or a ree so can't collect mud for instance but lots we do are similar.
Paul, based on this thread here:I don't remember but I think an Oxydator just makes oxygen, doesn't it?
I don't have one of those or a UV sterilizer even though many people seem to think that is the key to my success. It is my good looks.
I have not used my ozonizer in 5 months either but I want to hook it up even though I am fairly sure it has nothing to do with diseases.
I used my diatom filter just after I collected some seaweed and mud infused NSW 5 months ago but I also doubt that is the secret. (If it is, Get one)
As for diseased fish. I go to an LFS almost every week. I went to a huge one today and didn't see any sick fish. I wanted to buy something but they only had common things like angels, tangs, royal grammas etc. I need unusual, something I rarely see, something that comes in once a year and no one knows what it is and I don't care if it has spots, rashes or the heartbreak of psoriasis. But I didn't see any of those diseases or fish.
I have been buying fish since 1971 (freshwater fish since 1953) and I think they were in much worse shape then. A good hobbyist today should be able to handle any disease that they feel comes on a new fish. Me and Atoll never have problems with any disease and diseases are a non issue for us so we must be enigma's.
I think much of the problems comes from stress (quarantine gives the most stress) and I also feel the foods many people use are not the type to prevent or cure a disease. To me, medications (of which I have none) are also a cause for stress as all medications are poisons. If you take a fish that is in the middle or a nervous breakdown, then dip it in fresh water, which really screws up their osmosis working skin and I am sure burns their gills, then put it in a bare tank it is a wonder any of them survive. And looking at the disease forum, many of them don't.
So I am not sure it is the condition of the fish we get as much as the treatment we give new fish that pushes them over the edge.
I know most , OK all the people feel me and Atoll are either lying or in a coma but between us we have about 90 years of fish keeping experience.
Some, or even a tiny bit of what we observe is probably true. Just my pain and drug induced opinion of course and if you don't agree with it, you can go about your business and I will go back to sleep.
Can you point me to a study showing a dark, quiet quarantine away from aggressive eaters and territorial fish for 30 days is comparatively more stressful than “plop and drop”?I don't remember but I think an Oxydator just makes oxygen, doesn't it?
I don't have one of those or a UV sterilizer even though many people seem to think that is the key to my success. It is my good looks.
I have not used my ozonizer in 5 months either but I want to hook it up even though I am fairly sure it has nothing to do with diseases.
I used my diatom filter just after I collected some seaweed and mud infused NSW 5 months ago but I also doubt that is the secret. (If it is, Get one)
As for diseased fish. I go to an LFS almost every week. I went to a huge one today and didn't see any sick fish. I wanted to buy something but they only had common things like angels, tangs, royal grammas etc. I need unusual, something I rarely see, something that comes in once a year and no one knows what it is and I don't care if it has spots, rashes or the heartbreak of psoriasis. But I didn't see any of those diseases or fish.
I have been buying fish since 1971 (freshwater fish since 1953) and I think they were in much worse shape then. A good hobbyist today should be able to handle any disease that they feel comes on a new fish. Me and Atoll never have problems with any disease and diseases are a non issue for us so we must be enigma's.
I think much of the problems comes from stress (quarantine gives the most stress) and I also feel the foods many people use are not the type to prevent or cure a disease. To me, medications (of which I have none) are also a cause for stress as all medications are poisons. If you take a fish that is in the middle or a nervous breakdown, then dip it in fresh water, which really screws up their osmosis working skin and I am sure burns their gills, then put it in a bare tank it is a wonder any of them survive. And looking at the disease forum, many of them don't.
So I am not sure it is the condition of the fish we get as much as the treatment we give new fish that pushes them over the edge.
I know most , OK all the people feel me and Atoll are either lying or in a coma but between us we have about 90 years of fish keeping experience.
Some, or even a tiny bit of what we observe is probably true. Just my pain and drug induced opinion of course and if you don't agree with it, you can go about your business and I will go back to sleep.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY has talked about Oxydators on here and many FB groups (I own the aquarium users oxydator FB group) and .com groups in fact as far as I am aware until I and a few friends experimented with them all those years ago I don't think people had used them in marine aquaria. Of course, I consider them an important part of my success but it is just one piece of the jigsaw. I even talk about Oxydaors in my sleep, just put oxydator into google but I am not atoll posting in them all
Can you point me to a study showing a dark, quiet quarantine away from aggressive eaters and territorial fish for 30 days is comparatively more stressful than “plop and drop”?
Also as a scientific study, my fish, some of which are 27 years old have been with me using that method for much longer than any quarantined fish you can find, and they are in the oldest tank you can find. That is a scientific as I can get. Results = a scientific study as most scientists don't have fish tanks and if they are a fish researcher their experiment lasts a few weeks or until the money runs out and they have to get a job at Starbucks sweeping the floor. I on the other hand have a busted knee but as a real Man I like the pain. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has talked about Oxydators on here and many FB groups (I own the aquarium users oxydator FB group) and .com groups in fact as far as I am aware until I and a few friends experimented with them all those years ago I don't think people had used them in marine aquaria. Of course, I consider them an important part of my success but it is just one piece of the jigsaw. I even talk about Oxydaors in my sleep, just put oxydator into google but I am not atoll posting in them all
Quarantine has not been practiced nearly as long, for most. I have a couple 5 year old fish and lost most of the rest to a power failure. My father somehow doesn’t know when the breaker trips.I have no knowledge of what an oxidater does or does not do. I never used one.
Ford old Buddy, of course I can. My "Plop and Drop" method as you call it was in a scientific study and published in a book. OK, it's my book, but a book none the less.
As I mentioned dozens of times where are the old quarantined tanks? How many quarantined fish are 20+ years old? I don't see any except I know Humblefish had a 20 year old but he doesn't count because he is a fish God and he gives them mouth to snout respiration if need be.
Don't make me put all those threads up again showing all the sick or dying fish in quarantine.
There is no "Plop and Drop" method. My method, which by the way loses "no" fish, nada, none has more to it as you know I mentioned many times. It's all about immunity and naturalness.
I use parasites, bacteria, viruses as I use algae, as a benefit rather than a detriment. But that is for that other thread. This thread is supposed to be if fish are more sick today then yesterday. As I said, I don't see it.
