Great news update from Neptune!

[mitch91175]

I think the salt loss from these kinds of systems is the proverbial tempest-in-a-teacup. I would expect most systems to lose more SW to skimmate than automated alk testing. Assuming one is regularly checking for salinity, it's pretty simple to periodically replenish with a bit of NSW.

My thoughts exactly. Once released, I am judging the unit on the following:

1. Functionality- does it do well what it is supposed to do?
2. Long-term cost - if I paid 600 for the unit, how much more will it cost me for a years worth of testing?
3. How does the alkalinity measurements compare to my Alkatronic?
4. Will the unit correct and keep my parameters in a desired range? Still do not know if it will or won’t send info to the DOS to dose a certain amount.
5. Longevity - time will tell (for all units on the market).
6. Maintenance - how much maintenance is necessary

 

[ca1ore]

I’ll be getting the trident, unless it proves to be an unmitigated disaster (which I doubt), simply because I already have the apex and want to get alerts if parameters seem to be out if range. I’m not a fan of using measurements to trigger additives.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Patiently waiting.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Hey Terence,

Wondering if users will need the DOS to get full control functionality. The trident alone only monitors the parameters. Are we able to use the trident to trigger third party dosing pumps through the apex, or will the DOS be required to get full control (i.e. dosing in response to measured values)?

 

[WWIII]

Hey Terence,

Wondering if users will need the DOS to get full control functionality. The trident alone only monitors the parameters. Are we able to use the trident to trigger third party dosing pumps through the apex, or will the DOS be required to get full control (i.e. dosing in response to measured values)?

He addressed this in another thread, here's the quote...

At this point we are still working through the feature set. That said, any more complex feedback based automation of dosing will likely be tied to using the DOS as this is a super accurate device and a known and controllable entity. Doesn’t mean that the door would t be open for people to program their own dosing algorithm on their own off/on devices based on the values coming from the Trident, but those methods likely will not be as robust since they will be more loosely integrated.

 

[mtraylor]

My Apex classic bit the dust last week. It was running some where around 8 years I think. When it went down only one of the two db8's I had actually stopped working. I think this is preffered as to the later on the other one that stayed on line caused me issues. It lost its programing some how. I noticed as I heard my calcium reactor bubbling. Needless to say the PH in the calc reactor was like 3.0 or lower cant remember and all the switches on the db8 were out of wack. I was not happy that the auto/off options on the db8 did not work properly. Some of them just went to "on" status like my calc reactor and my ATO which is directly hooked to my sump ;Nailbiting. Needless to say some corals in my aquarium are not happy and I lost one colony.

I have never had any issues over the 8 years, but the one thing I purchased it for in the first place failed and cost me. Not happy with that at all. Anyway, I went to the LFS and purchased a new APEX body. It hooked up seamlessly to my system. Since the old unit would not power up, I logged into APEX Fusion and looked at the programming for the ports. I was able to reprogram everything by looking at the old stuff. That was nice. I was still up to about 2am fixing everything.

I do like the wifi built in that's a plus. I got rid of my access point I was using for the classic. I did send my classic unit in to get repaired. I would like to know what failed. If its not too expensive, I will use it as a backup for a while and then sell it to someone to get them into the controller market. That's what I did back in the analog days. Bought a used apex, and that's what got me buying apex's years ago.

 

[ca1ore]

It's a balancing act, don't you think? One company whose audio product I own never says anything, ever about upcoming new products. They do this, in part, so that they don't ever miss a commitment date ..... because they never give any. They are criticized for not being forthcoming, etc. etc. I know that I would prefer that they offer some insight into new stuff, for many reasons, even if it means missing dates. Hard to please all the people all the time indeed LOL.

 

[lbacha]

It's a balancing act, don't you think? One company whose audio product I own never says anything, ever about upcoming new products. They do this, in part, so that they don't ever miss a commitment date ..... because they never give any. They are criticized for not being forthcoming, etc. etc. I know that I would prefer that they offer some insight into new stuff, for many reasons, even if it means missing dates. Hard to please all the people all the time indeed LOL.

Yeah you need to announce new products to keep people excited and know what's coming. On the other hand it is really hard to set a date far in advance and hit it when you are a smaller company. I consider most aquarium hobby companies small when compared to many of the companies out there. I still would rather wait for a quality product vs one that is rushed to market. Being the first to market sometimes isn't the best as you can learn from the mistakes that the early entries to market made.

Companies can never make everyone happy

 

[datBme150]

The schedule slip is the least of my concerns about Neptune. I’m all Neptune right now (unfortunately) but moving away as I can.

what would you move to over Apex?

 

[mitch91175]

what would you move to over Apex?

I would think he would consider GHL, ReefKeeper Elite, the open-source Reef-Pi, just to name a few.

 

[mitch91175]

But at the same time, I am sure he just has his panties in a wad . He ain't switching and we all know it.

 

[Sagecritter4life]

Yeah I was one that actually made a video and was not happy with the noise. I’ll be getting a replacement kit for it soon. Functionality wise it is rock solid. Not for everyone. For me I’ll be getting another for my frag tank. I like it that much. To each his own.

I like my Apex just like the next, but I also have spent too much to sit and play the waiting game. If the Trident is all it is being made up to be, I’ll give it a look. But not too thrilled about the single pump controlling everything. Also thinking that flushing to test Alk, Cal, and Mag is going to use a LOT of water. You will see what I mean when you finally get a unit.

The water usage is something that ALL manufacturers are not considering. It will gradually decrease salinity regardless of which system we use. The question is just how much will it use.

I’d like to see something that would also replace the same amount of mixed salt water that the unit removes to minimize the drop.

Agree I add 23 oz replacement saltwater nightly to make up for the roughly ten times (3 hr interval) it tests to keep salinity correct. Been contemplating how to make it easier myself lol. This will be a problem for ANY make of unit that tests frequently.

 

[mitch91175]

Agree I add 23 oz replacement saltwater nightly to make up for the roughly ten times (3 hr interval) it tests to keep salinity correct. Been contemplating how to make it easier myself lol. This will be a problem for ANY make of unit that tests frequently.

I just made a 5 gallon bucket of concentrated salt mix that I add a few cups to my ATO container when I fill it. Yes no matter what is said, when you have your unit testing over 100 time in 2 weeks, it WILL have a slight effect on overall salinity.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Is there a way that you can setup a dosing pump that your apex can send a msg to that after your alk Controller runs a test it can replace the amount of tank water that was used ?

 

[mitch91175]

Is there a way that you can setup a dosing pump that your apex can send a msg to that after your alk Controller runs a test it can replace the amount of tank water that was used ?

Highly unlikely. From something that I read I do not think that it would communicate with any other dosing pump etc. for dosing any quantities of liquid (maybe with the DOS, but that is yet to be determined). Either way that would be one EXPENSIVE saltwater replacement unit (meaning using a Neptune DOS head just for that purpose ).

Neither unit currently on the market does that either.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

Highly unlikely. From something that I read I do not think that it would communicate with any other dosing pump etc. for dosing any quantities of liquid (maybe with the DOS, but that is yet to be determined). Either way that would be one EXPENSIVE saltwater replacement unit (meaning using a Neptune DOS head just for that purpose ).

Neither unit currently on the market does that either.

Can you share what you read ?
Cause this sounds like we would be able to dose liquid with the DOS/dosing pumps(may not be as on point as the DOS).


At this point we are still working through the feature set. That said, any more complex feedback based automation of dosing will likely be tied to using the DOS as this is a super accurate device and a known and controllable entity. Doesn’t mean that the door would t be open for people to program their own dosing algorithm on their own off/on devices based on the values coming from the Trident, but those methods likely will not be as robust since they will be more loosely integrated.


But basically what I’m asking is if you know the times you will run your test and how much water will be used to run the test can you program your apex to turn on a pump let’s say to dose 10ml of tank water to replace what was used. kind of like how some reefers setup daily auto water change.

 

[mitch91175]

Can you share what you read ?
Cause this sounds like we would be able to dose liquid with the DOS/dosing pumps(may not be as on point as the DOS).


At this point we are still working through the feature set. That said, any more complex feedback based automation of dosing will likely be tied to using the DOS as this is a super accurate device and a known and controllable entity. Doesn’t mean that the door would t be open for people to program their own dosing algorithm on their own off/on devices based on the values coming from the Trident, but those methods likely will not be as robust since they will be more loosely integrated.


But basically what I’m asking is if you know the times you will run your test and how much water will be used to run the test can you program your apex to turn on a pump let’s say to dose 10ml of tank water to replace what was used. kind of like how some reefers setup daily auto water change.

That is what I read in post #63 above. Sure you could setup a pump to dose the amount of water that is used by the tester. I do not think it would be tied to the Trident telling it to do so though. You would likely just have to schedule at the same time as you have it testing like you mentioned. From what I know, the Apex doesn’t do any control of any other dosing unit besides the DOS. Am I mistaken in that understanding?

 

[Greenstreet.1]

That is what I read in post #63 above. Sure you could setup a pump to dose the amount of water that is used by the tester. I do not think it would be tied to the Trident telling it to do so though. You would likely just have to schedule at the same time as you have it testing like you mentioned. From what I know, the Apex doesn’t do any control of any other dosing unit besides the DOS. Am I mistaken in that understanding?

Ok I see the problem my fault did not really me to say the trident tells the pump to replace the way although that would be nice. Ok so we are clear on the dosing of the makeup water.

In that same post #63 Terrance said that we should be able to put a program together that will control our dosing pumps but DOS would be the more accurate route unless I misunderstood what he wrote.

 

[mitch91175]

Ok I see the problem my fault did not really me to say the trident tells the pump to replace the way although that would be nice. Ok so we are clear on the dosing of the makeup water.

In that same post #63 Terrance said that we should be able to put a program together that will control our dosing pumps but DOS would be the more accurate route unless I misunderstood what he wrote.

I’d say that is a correct assessment since you can program a BRS and similar dosing pumps today to dose for a certain amount of time to get a certain amount doses.

I’d imagine that you could use the reading from the Trident to trigger say a BRS doser to add a certain amount of each. Don’t know if they will have calculations provided for that purpose, but that to me is a more risky approach to correcting the measurements. Your programming of the outlet would be massive. I wouldn’t trust that method to dose any liquids. If the DOS does work with the Trident that will likely be your safest bet.

You could always have a unit that you can remotely trigger to do based upon your knowledge of your tank usage and have it add the necessary amounts for you.

Just too many moving parts for my liking. Lots of room for disaster.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I see it like this if the DOS does the job correctly I will buy the DOS also for ease of mind and use one of my brs pump for my mag as I dose mag daily and the other brs pump to replace water used for testing.