I HAVE NO CORAL GROWTH!

[rosieosieee]

Thank you. I got some sps from battle corals months back. They all bleached on me. I chunked them and said never again. LOL! But I did just pick up a frag from my LFS. So I'm going to give it a try with something hardier. I rather lps anyway.

thanks really surprising, battle corals is amazing. my lfs just did an order from him!

 

[rosieosieee]

I am on my first reef. I went with a 20 gallon nano mix reef. I, like you(i'm sure), did a ton of research in the beginning. Going through feeds, forums and checking out profiles and builds. You look at the huge 200 and 300 gallons running pumps, skimmer, powerheads, reactors, crazy huge sumps that could put some nanos to shame. But, what I started noticing is there is a difference between big and small. Because this hobby has an almost limitless price range, most big tanks add all these extra peripherals(i'm a computer nut) to the equation to reduce or eliminate water changes. Nano's like you said, need trace elements. And who wants to blow through the wallet for reactors and dosing pumps? So I decided that this little 20 gallon could be cheaper than I initially thought.

To make sure I was right about saving some money, I started researching filtration. Do I need a filter? What about skimming? Do i need to skim or run some mechanical filtration? The debates on those very questions sometimes exceed 50 pages of reading in forums. Eventually I found my answer. I could be wrong but it seems simple enough. NANO mix reef = skimmer optional, no mechanical. NANO fish only = With mechanical and skimming optional. I say this because my nutrient export of 3.5 gallons water a week, keeps my tank perfect. It's a 20 gallon nano with chinese led, aquamaxx hob-1, 2 jebao rw-4, heater, hydor ATO, 3 inch sand bed, 22 lbs live rock. 2 ocel clowns, 1 firefish, pistol shrimp and red banded goby, cleaner shrimp, bristolworms, asterina stars and those little bittlestars. Please note: that some variants of zoa grow slower than others. My eagle eyes grow 10 to 1 rasta zoanthids.

A long story short, tanks been up for almost a year. No crashes, no sickness, exceptional growth and I couldn't happier. Except I'm not producing enough algae for the snails. I'm working on that.

agree with you on this, that's why I have decided to move the sump onto my 60g and possibly just keep the reactor to keep my sps colored up. I didn't spend all this time and money because I saw people with big tanks do it. I knew most nanos can be simple now- that's why nanos have become so popular- they're easy to care for with the correct filter media in an hob almost anything is possible! I just wanted to be over the top. I am stuck in an apartment throughout college, and I can't have a big system. so I figured why not build the ultimate nano? I guess that doesn't exist with this mindset. onwards and upwards!

 

[rosieosieee]

I have the exact same ric. Been in my tank over 2 years and hasn't grown a bit. Everything from acans to sps and a clam has grown 5 times over. Ric, same size.

the orange one? I had a tri color that constantly gets two mouths so I just cut it, it never splits on its own. recently it detached and floated away. ): prettiest ric I've ever seen too.

 

[Devlin]

thanks really surprising, battle corals is amazing. my lfs just did an order from him!

Battle corals is great. Really nice guy. I just don't have a clue when it comes to sps and the patience it takes to keep them. LOL! I definitely killed them myself. LOL! They came in in great shape. After about 4 weeks it all went south for me.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

bump! anyone else? conclusions so far: light and too much filtration.

Still going back over the thread in case I missed something
But food yea light maybe. Your SPS are beautiful. That's weird to me because your LPS and Zoas look good too.
And that not usually possible. There are usually just the two types. SPS and softie.
(Yes there's several in between semantics)
But they are corals that as far as a I know need two totally different habitats. Lighting flow and nutrient wise.
Two see them mixed in a tank but still looking healthy makes me wonder.
My Zoas won't open in flow high enough to keep that green SPS alive.
Defiantly not in a tank that small.
So keeping any of them is lucky. Perhaps because you've struck suck a light flow and nutrient balance that it's beautiful and colorful but grows slow.
In zeovite and other systems you learn to manipulate those balances for color or growth based on the nutrient bacteria ligting. Etc.
So by unplugging the skimmer for a week (no the tank won't die) you would be changing the nutrients. Add calcium and you'll get crazy growth in the SPS but ugly colors.
See SPS browning hi nutrients on Google.
My nano is brown now. But growing.

slow changes are best.
And visually there appears there's nothing actually wrong with your tank.
I would change nothing. Begin to spot feed (blender mush From the store is actually ok )
Twice a week. If you feel the need to change the light go with a single t5 actinic or Fiji purple.

Moderately increased feedings an slight increase in available light spectrum. Plus tiny increase in intensity.

 

[Peanut]

water changes? what water do you use?

 

[Abbass]

Beautifull tank

 

[Reefaddict305]

for what it's worth, ive also been dosing this line every two weeks.

Hey Rosie does that stuff really works? I've heard about this product?

 

[jasonandsarah]

Changing your light to a Radion Xr15 is a great idea!
Although I don't think that is your problem. Putting the skimmer on a timer could possibly help. Imo your biggest problem is gfo, you already have a fuge with cheto and do weekly WC(with no fish) so why run gfo? I've stopped using Gfo on my 75g Sps dominant tank lit by 2 Radion gen 3 pro's with great results. I say cut the gfo and start using that reactor for carbon. Run carbon for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.
Also I'd suggest you get a better test for Po4. If your using salifert and it's coming back at 0.03 then it could easily be 0.00 or 0.18 lol. I'm sure others disagree but I don't trust anything but Hanna Ulr phosphorus checker.
Lastly with Leds you can definitely up your peak day to a little longer. I run my lights at peak for 5 hours and in total then run for just under 11 hours a day. T5's on for 5 hours as well.
Rant over......

 

[Betty1964]

A friend of mine was having the same problem. What she found was that once she added fish, her corals thrived.

 

[lisawolk]

You may not be getting the growth you are looking for but I must say to keep the kinds of corals you have in that tank for a year is a achievement you should be very proud of. That's a dope little nano you have there.

Agreed. Plus when it all goes grow out there will be choking out issues. Been there. Unless there's an upgrade in the future. BA little tank tho.

 

[WVReefJunkie]

When was the last time you have had signs of bad algae in the tank? Tank looks real clean, thought of lack of nutrients for the corals possibly.

 

[malira]

When was the last time you have had signs of bad algae in the tank? Tank looks real clean, thought of lack of nutrients for the corals possibly.

I had this problem in my son's 90g mixed reef tank. The water was too clean. I took out carbon, bio-pellets, most of the phosguard ang I started feeding heavily. I keep nitrates around 5 ppm. The corals colored back up great. They started growing. I had ti double my calcium dosing.

 

[brad65ford]

That small of a tank needs no nutrient removal imo, just water changes when needed. Do 100 percent wc too. Also you don't need crazy light. Nano are almost to easy for softies, and for zoa's to really grow you need water movement,, same direct allows them to spreed well.

 

[polarcollision]

Hi there, I usually read through r2r but post my tank threads over at nano-reef. When I saw this thread, I had to log in to give 2 suggestions that popped into mind! Hope they help.

I have a Nuvo 8 also, and kept a mixed reef in it. I know exactly what you're going through. First, I'm not convinced LED light is a problem. Mostly because my light was LED and I had fantastic growth in the Nuvo 8. However, I did run the whites higher than 50% so it might be worth the effort to get readings from a PAR meter to see if you could raise your whites. also, advanced aquarist has a fantastic article about spectrum and growth that's very technical--check it out, for sure. Very basic summary is violet through the cyan-ish colors are needed for growth.

Also, from my father who has his phd in plant physiology, red spectrum is a signal to shut down photosynthesis for the day (think sunset). I use this in my 24 Nuvo by peaking the red spectrum channel about 2 hrs before lights go out.

I don't know how long your light schedule is, but I never listened to the idea of 8 hr light schedule. My lights ramped up from 6 am to 11am, stayed on full til 5 pm, then ramped down until 11pm. Pitch black, no moonlight overnight. That's a ton of light! And I think it is a major contributor for the growth.

The second idea I had for you is iodine. Zoas need iodine to grow and stay vibrantly colored. I hear that skimmers strip iodine so a tank can become depleted easily. I use redSea iodine test kit. It's a pain to use, but seems reliable. Then just dose luigols (spelling?) as needed. I like luigols because it also helps support potassium which is linked to growth and coloration as well.

Well, that's my input. I'm polarcollision over at nano reef if you want to see my 2 tanks. Threads are kinda technical/dry since I mostly logged as I learned, but it all played out and there are plenty of pics of zoas taking over every rock nook.

Best, Deborah

 

[rosieosieee]

Still going back over the thread in case I missed something
But food yea light maybe. Your SPS are beautiful. That's weird to me because your LPS and Zoas look good too.
And that not usually possible. There are usually just the two types. SPS and softie.
(Yes there's several in between semantics)
But they are corals that as far as a I know need two totally different habitats. Lighting flow and nutrient wise.
Two see them mixed in a tank but still looking healthy makes me wonder.
My Zoas won't open in flow high enough to keep that green SPS alive.
Defiantly not in a tank that small.
So keeping any of them is lucky. Perhaps because you've struck suck a light flow and nutrient balance that it's beautiful and colorful but grows slow.
In zeovite and other systems you learn to manipulate those balances for color or growth based on the nutrient bacteria ligting. Etc.
So by unplugging the skimmer for a week (no the tank won't die) you would be changing the nutrients. Add calcium and you'll get crazy growth in the SPS but ugly colors.
See SPS browning hi nutrients on Google.
My nano is brown now. But growing.

slow changes are best.
And visually there appears there's nothing actually wrong with your tank.
I would change nothing. Begin to spot feed (blender mush From the store is actually ok )
Twice a week. If you feel the need to change the light go with a single t5 actinic or Fiji purple.

Moderately increased feedings an slight increase in available light spectrum. Plus tiny increase in intensity.

i keep all types of coral, thats why its a MIXED reef, not just an lps or a softie reef. lots of people do this, successfully as well. i have built the tank to handle very different types of water conditions, even though its a nano. i am not just "lucky".

1. the light is positioned way far back, almost hanging over the rear edge. this is so the intensity is very high over the back wall (where the sps are) and the lps in the sand bed and at the front of the tank (mainly the acans) get very little light.

2. the return AND the power head are both positioned at the top of the tank. this is so there is heavy flow up high (for the sps) but moderate to low flow at the very bottom of the tank.

3. i feed this tank so much i can even begin to think about feeding it more...

water changes? what water do you use?

as I stated it gets weekly water changes (around 15-20%) with RO/DI water and salinity by aqua vitro.

Beautifull tank

thank you!

Hey Rosie does that stuff really works? I've heard about this product?

looks like my rastas grew some more heads, that is the ONLY difference i have seen since using this, and i have gone through the whole box now. my skimmer goes CRAZY for 48h after i dose so i just unplug it. its kind of a hassle lol.

Changing your light to a Radion Xr15 is a great idea!
Although I don't think that is your problem. Putting the skimmer on a timer could possibly help. Imo your biggest problem is gfo, you already have a fuge with cheto and do weekly WC(with no fish) so why run gfo? I've stopped using Gfo on my 75g Sps dominant tank lit by 2 Radion gen 3 pro's with great results. I say cut the gfo and start using that reactor for carbon. Run carbon for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.
Also I'd suggest you get a better test for Po4. If your using salifert and it's coming back at 0.03 then it could easily be 0.00 or 0.18 lol. I'm sure others disagree but I don't trust anything but Hanna Ulr phosphorus checker.
Lastly with Leds you can definitely up your peak day to a little longer. I run my lights at peak for 5 hours and in total then run for just under 11 hours a day. T5's on for 5 hours as well.
Rant over......

agreed, i had my peak so low as i was acclimating the scolys to it. I'm increasing 10% every week until I'm back to normal, then ill add 30m to peak time per week until I'm back to around 6-7h.

i run the GFO very cautiously. if i was not consistently testing positive for phosphates, i would not run it. but i do. every single time i test i test some amount of phosphates. i would be worried if i tested none every once in awhile, but clearly there is some trace amount, regardless of what it is. if the corals were starving, they would not have as much color as they do. carbon is in a bag in the sump.

A friend of mine was having the same problem. What she found was that once she added fish, her corals thrived.

weird how my NPS tank is fishless and grows just fine! not every nano has fish...think of the picos! there are many 1-5g tanks that are just too small to have really any fish, and they have just fine growth.

Agreed. Plus when it all goes grow out there will be choking out issues. Been there. Unless there's an upgrade in the future. BA little tank tho.

well, its not growing at all, so that won't be a problem for quite a long time. plus, i have organized the tank as well as i can so that neighboring corals do not sting and kill each other, but rather just live peacefully together. 60g is getting all the lps soon and this will be an sps only tank, so there will be slower growth and lots more room!

When was the last time you have had signs of bad algae in the tank? Tank looks real clean, thought of lack of nutrients for the corals possibly.

i have such excessive amounts of bubble algae i can't even begin to tell you. i need like 10 emerald crabs, i just hate them so i never get around to buying them.

other than that, i have a VERY beefy clean up crew, because i HATE algae. i am very anal about algae (besides the bubble lol).

if it were a lack of nutrients, i would expect the coloration of the corals to not be as bright as they are.

I had this problem in my son's 90g mixed reef tank. The water was too clean. I took out carbon, bio-pellets, most of the phosguard ang I started feeding heavily. I keep nitrates around 5 ppm. The corals colored back up great. They started growing. I had ti double my calcium dosing.

my corals are colored up just fine, and my calcium is actually running too high right now! i feed pretty heavily considering how small the tank is and having no fish...i consistently test nitrates and phosphates, sometimes the nitrates are up at 15ppm.

That small of a tank needs no nutrient removal imo, just water changes when needed. Do 100 percent wc too. Also you don't need crazy light. Nano are almost to easy for softies, and for zoa's to really grow you need water movement,, same direct allows them to spreed well.

you just contradicted yourself. you said that small of a tank needs no nutrient removal, but to do 100% water changes? thats 100% nutrient removal. and ill have to disagree with you completely. nano tanks need more nutrient removal than larger tanks because you have much less room for error, and a smaller amount of water volume is much harder to keep clean than a large volume. i will not be doing 100% water changes, as all the coralline on the rocks will die if exposed to air every single week. water movement? there are happy acropora in there, there is plenty of water movement! i have a "crazy" light because some acropora need up to 300-500PAR. this tank will be all SPS soon as well. i have the light positioned in a way that there is a lot of variation in PAR around the tank.








AS STATED ABOVE: i plan to remove the sump and throw it on my 60g, and just keep the GFO reactor BECAUSE one week after adding it, my sps colors looked about 250% better (i will post a picture, just a second). when i upgrade to the fusion 10 and remove the sump, add the mp10-- this will be a STRICTLY SPS TANK ONLY. i guess we will see how it goes!

 

[rosieosieee]

Hi there, I usually read through r2r but post my tank threads over at nano-reef. When I saw this thread, I had to log in to give 2 suggestions that popped into mind! Hope they help.

I have a Nuvo 8 also, and kept a mixed reef in it. I know exactly what you're going through. First, I'm not convinced LED light is a problem. Mostly because my light was LED and I had fantastic growth in the Nuvo 8. However, I did run the whites higher than 50% so it might be worth the effort to get readings from a PAR meter to see if you could raise your whites. also, advanced aquarist has a fantastic article about spectrum and growth that's very technical--check it out, for sure. Very basic summary is violet through the cyan-ish colors are needed for growth.

Also, from my father who has his phd in plant physiology, red spectrum is a signal to shut down photosynthesis for the day (think sunset). I use this in my 24 Nuvo by peaking the red spectrum channel about 2 hrs before lights go out.

I don't know how long your light schedule is, but I never listened to the idea of 8 hr light schedule. My lights ramped up from 6 am to 11am, stayed on full til 5 pm, then ramped down until 11pm. Pitch black, no moonlight overnight. That's a ton of light! And I think it is a major contributor for the growth.

The second idea I had for you is iodine. Zoas need iodine to grow and stay vibrantly colored. I hear that skimmers strip iodine so a tank can become depleted easily. I use redSea iodine test kit. It's a pain to use, but seems reliable. Then just dose luigols (spelling?) as needed. I like luigols because it also helps support potassium which is linked to growth and coloration as well.

Well, that's my input. I'm polarcollision over at nano reef if you want to see my 2 tanks. Threads are kinda technical/dry since I mostly logged as I learned, but it all played out and there are plenty of pics of zoas taking over every rock nook.

Best, Deborah

thank you so much for your advice! i am not against LEDs in any way, shape, or form, but i have yet to see a beautiful reef grown out from frags from this specific light. i am slowly raising my lights back up (was acclimating a scoly to my tank) 10% a week. my lights come on at 11am and turn off at midnight. peak is only about 4h, which i am also in the process of lengthening back out.

i dose iodide occasionally! in the nano reef kit doses, one of them is iodide! thats been dosed every two weeks. recently, my trachy got stung pretty badly by my elegance, so he's in the sump and I'm going to start dosing twice a week with aqua vitro's iodide supplement. i might look into getting some lugols though!

thanks again!

 

[rosieosieee]

for those of you suggesting lack of nutrients, here are some pictures I just took today. note: I just pulled out about five clumps of this YESTERDAY. the bubble algae grows 5x as fast as the cheato. LOL!

here is the before and after picture when I added the GFO reactor. ONE WEEK.

 

[rosieosieee]

Battle corals is great. Really nice guy. I just don't have a clue when it comes to sps and the patience it takes to keep them. LOL! I definitely killed them myself. LOL! They came in in great shape. After about 4 weeks it all went south for me.

got the order in yesterday. was kind of disappointed, they were all fresh cuts- fresh glue, fresh plugs. i hope they do well.... :/

 

[brad65ford]

"you just contradicted yourself. you said that small of a tank needs no nutrient removal, but to do 100% water changes? thats 100% nutrient removal. and ill have to disagree with you completely. nano tanks need more nutrient removal than larger tanks because you have much less room for error, and a smaller amount of water volume is much harder to keep clean than a large volume. i will not be doing 100% water changes, as all the coralline on the rocks will die if exposed to air every single week. water movement? there are happy acropora in there, there is plenty of water movement! i have a "crazy" light because some acropora need up to 300-500PAR. this tank will be all SPS soon as well. i have the light positioned in a way that there is a lot of variation in PAR around the tank."


my deepest apologizes for not stating clearer what i meant. No nutrient removal meaning chem's, gfo, skimmer etc... Been reefing long enough to know water changes are by far the easiest with small nano's for ease of success over other methods especially when the corals get used to it including sps's. Here are my 2g and 4g nano's. Just simple led's some fish and pellet feed with 100 percent water changes ever 3-4 weeks. Only sps's was a monti which plated very fast. They say "practice what you preach" so sorry if i laid some vague statements, they just work for me. Reason i posted and mentioned anything was you were after growth even with softies. I disagree about the coraline dieing off as well as a lot of corals don't mind being out of the water for a short period of time.