Inner Wokings- High Dollar LED Lights VS Low Cost ?

[427HISS]

With everybody liking different brands of LED lighting, for what ever reason, please write with honesy.

A friend that is the manager at a LFS was sending in a major, brand of lighting, from customers LED systems for repair. The other day, he opened one up and was amazed,....on the low cost parts that are used. Nothing special, he said.

I know the electronics are a major cost, so other than that the very nice looking housing, what are the differences between the actual lighting of the expensive company's vs the Chinese lighting ?

If you take away the fancy bells & whistle's (what ever they are) will the corals know the cost difference ?

The reason for my asking, is the top 3 or so systems are way to high in cost, not only me, but for a lot of people. If the top 3 or so are say, $3,000 to light my reef and the ebay low cost of $600, why spend the difference if the corals will be just as happy under both ?

 

[dragon99]

Photons are photons. So yes, regardless of how much a lights costs, it's putting out the same thing as a cheap ebay black box. Even the most expensive brands seem to cut corners on components like power supply, (non) water tight connectors, etc.

Higher price tags tend to get better mix of color spectrum, better controls, and good support.

 

[xviijdx]

I run mars aqua from ebay on my tank,Absolutly love it, Can even daisey chain the boxes together, Have them Ran to a RKL and control turn on, Plus dimming capabilites, Corals Really pop when only actinics are on, and Really swell during the day. I replaced a 7 Bulb T5HO with it, Andi can say im glad i did,

 

[Reef_a_holiks]

Ive tried both highend and low cost fixtures. They both perform the same when it comes to coral growth and keeping. Only reason i can think of to go with high end is for the better looking appearance they offer compared to low cost fixtures, features, and customer support. I dont know why they dont start making the chinese black boxes slimmer and more modern looking by simply having the drivers within the power cord and not in the fixture it self.

 

[MaiReef]

I went from the Chinese black boxes to Aquatic Life Xv-US and my coral looked better within days and they are discontinuing them(currently very inexpensive), but there is a difference IMHO on coloration of the coral.

 

[427HISS]

I run mars aqua from ebay on my tank,Absolutly love it, Can even daisey chain the boxes together, Have them Ran to a RKL and control turn on, Plus dimming capabilites, Corals Really pop when only actinics are on, and Really swell during the day. I replaced a 7 Bulb T5HO with it, Andi can say im glad i did,

Wow, $95 bucks plus free shipping. Can you post pics of yours and the corals ?

How's the mixing of colors in the water ?
What's the real world coverage ?

 

[Cory]

Ive tried chinese black box red/white 3w leds. My only concern was i felt ripped off when it didn't dim. It was sold ad "auto dims". But really it just turned on and off with a timer.

Now i use kessil a160 and its vastly superior in looks, weight, noise, color chipsets used, shimmer, and wattage used, and it auto dims.

I tried to sell my chinese led, nobody would buy it for even half price.

I sold my old kessil a360 in 3 days.

 

[427HISS]

I just watched a few videos of reefkeepers that have the Chineese lights, and have yet to hear anyone that don't have good results of coral growth and color. The PAR levels are quite high on top, but pretty low on the bottom.

With my limited research so far,....about "Chinese" lights, it sounds like a lot of people are happy. Most are about the same price, close to $100 bucks. Warranty's are 12 months, one stating that after a year, they will still send you free parts.
Most are full spectrum, controlable and can daisy chain several together to a max of 1,000 watts.

There are extensive amounts of video's to watch, but here are just a few.

Below is a guy's readings.

6 Month Review on 165 Watt Chinese LED-

Ebay-

VIPARSPECTRA Timer Control 165W LED Aquarium Light Full Spectrum Reef Coral Tank
$128 (or offer)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIPARSPECTR...-Coral-Tank-/181275113350?hash=item2a34d6b786

PAR-

 

[427HISS]

Ive tried chinese black box red/white 3w leds. My only concern was i felt ripped off when it didn't dim. It was sold ad "auto dims". But really it just turned on and off with a timer.

Now i use kessil a160 and its vastly superior in looks, weight, noise, color chipsets used, shimmer, and wattage used.

I tried to sell my chinese led, nobody would buy it for even half price.

I sold my old kessil a360 in 3 days.

Lol, yep, I'm not happy with one of my Chinese lights on my wifes 29g cube.
My new 125g is in progress and will have three Kessil 360's.

 

[Cory]

If your going with just one light, it could be said

Black box led is for the low class
Kessil is for middle class
Radions/vertex are for upper class

With my income kessil fits my budget lol

No offence to anyone, take it as a joke

 

[McMullen]

My black box simply turn on/off. Best I can tell, my coral don't mind the non-dimmable capabilities of a 'low class' light.

I've seen two different systems on Kessil and multiple tanks on Radions.....not impressed! Cost does not always equal "better."

 

[Cory]

My black box simply turn on/off. Best I can tell, my coral don't mind the non-dimmable capabilities of a 'low class' light.

I've seen two different systems on Kessil and multiple tanks on Radions.....not impressed! Cost does not always equal "better."

Usually the more expensive the more options its got. Radions you can control all the colors of the rainbow. Kessil just adusts them all at once from 10-20k, my black box was just on and off, but there are a few that can adjust all colors now too.

Not all leds are the same, they may live significantly less in the chinese black nox, than in say a kessil. Chinese boxes are using high quality chipsets. They use cheap as possible chipsets. Some have even caught on fire. Cheap and qualtiy is an impossiblty.

 

[McMullen]

@Cory, I agree with everything you said. I know nothing about the electronics involved with different LED products and units. From the water level up there may be large differences in quality. However, from the water level down its at least the same or in my opinion better (full spectrum black box).

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

there will never be a straight answer to this question.
Kessils sell. no par data, no spectral date nothing but they sell.
EVERYTHING is a chinese black box. welcome to america.
Get a light you can afford, bells and whistles rock the only one you really want or need is dimming and a built in timer.. the biggest difference will be appearance and warranty(resale if you care)
I like purple, I have current orbit and SBreeflight.(more 420-435) kessil in general is too Aqua for me.
The next thing is the amount of intensity. An ap700 puts out less light than an SB Mars, the New Maxspect, Hydra 52 etc.
SO, IMO you really want to look for appearance, warranty, intensity, bells. whistles are overrated.

A thing Ive been researching.
ALL of the led that I have been seeing fall in the same par lux conversion factor of about 60.
IE 3000 lux divided by 60 is 50 par
A t5 can be as good as 35, ie 3000 / 35 = 85 par. or less depending on the color of the tube.
I average a t5 at 40. some MH are documented at 40 and 50.
BTW the sun has a conversion of 53

SO think about that. NO led I have seen so far has much variance from that number...60. A "better" led should have a lower conversion number. And I haven't seen one yet.
(unless you use a seneye, long story)

 

[gus6464]

You are for the most part paying for color. Mars Aqua and the such is super blurple. To me blurple looks hideous. Of course this is comparing plastic optic based units. The better quality stuff doesn't need them to inflate their par numbers.

 

[reeferfoxx]

What if i told you guys that China sells LED chips for very cheap and that changing LED colors is simple?

 

[427HISS]

Cory-

You mentioned, "Radions you can control all the colors of the rainbow".

That's one of the problems I think about. With so much in their ( and others) color wheel, is why do we need that much.
It's impressive to be able to choose all the colors of tge rainbow, but do we, and especially the corals, how do we choose ?

Have the expensive/well known light companys done any studies on exactly what the sun puts out in color and PAR, from one inch under the surface and water down say, 20 feet, and put exactly what those readings are, and produce those into their lights ?

If the big boys do, and the cheap light don't, I would buy the expensive one's, but if both have basicly the same color and PAR, I may prefer the lesser priced lights. I could care less, to have lighting,....in my reef.

 

[Waterjockey]

I have a Mars Aqua 300W. Whites on one channel, "blurple" (I love that word lol) on a 2nd channel. Each channel independently dimmable. Very very powerful lights, no need to run the blurple channel high to achieve high par.
On a standard 30 gallon, I am currently at 10% whites and 17% blurple at peak part of schedule.

 

[427HISS]

there will never be a straight answer to this question.
Kessils sell. no par data, no spectral date nothing but they sell.
EVERYTHING is a chinese black box. welcome to america.
Get a light you can afford, bells and whistles rock the only one you really want or need is dimming and a built in timer.. the biggest difference will be appearance and warranty(resale if you care)
I like purple, I have current orbit and SBreeflight.(more 420-435) kessil in general is too Aqua for me.
The next thing is the amount of intensity. An ap700 puts out less light than an SB Mars, the New Maxspect, Hydra 52 etc.
SO, IMO you really want to look for appearance, warranty, intensity, bells. whistles are overrated.

A thing Ive been researching.
ALL of the led that I have been seeing fall in the same par lux conversion factor of about 60.
IE 3000 lux divided by 60 is 50 par
A t5 can be as good as 35, ie 3000 / 35 = 85 par. or less depending on the color of the tube.
I average a t5 at 40. some MH are documented at 40 and 50.
BTW the sun has a conversion of 53

SO think about that. NO led I have seen so far has much variance from that number...60. A "better" led should have a lower conversion number. And I haven't seen one yet.
(unless you use a seneye, long story)

I'm sure somone has done a PAR test with the Kessl's, and I'd sure like to see it.

Buying a light that we can afford is a problem, because let's say if that light had a color/s that is very cheap to produce and it melted my corals, not only would I be ticked and sad, but I would never buy it again. So far, I han't heard tht from anyone.

With PAR, if the cheap lights couldn't reach the bottom of the tank, I wouldn't buy them either.

Here's the big question-

A comparrison test of color and PAR with both expensive and cheap light company's,...... would be wonderful !

Can anybody here with a high quality PAR & COLOR meter perform this test ?

 

[427HISS]

I have a Mars Aqua 300W. Whites on one channel, "blurple" (I love that word lol) on a 2nd channel. Each channel independently dimmable. Very very powerful lights, no need to run the blurple channel high to achieve high par.
On a standard 30 gallon, I am currently at 10% whites and 17% blurple at peak part of schedule.

Really, 10% whites and 17% blurple at peak part of schedule,.....at peak ?