Instant ways to kill ich and velvet

[Doctorgori]

That’s just plain out stupid who’s gonna wait that long. Use a UV stelizer. Use super ich cure and wait for 2 weeks. As well increase temp to 82 degrees

Me, when you loose hard to obtain mated pairs of fish or whole tanks worth of thousands in large old “pets” you will do anything to “make it just go away”
I went well over 20yrs without ich or QT … then a 2-4 yr battle with multiple wipeouts

I believe in @Paul B and his methodology…not sure my tank setup or my knowledge and experience matches his

Calling real effective cures stupid is not a good look. Sometimes when you don't agree with facts it's best to just keep it to yourself.

Yes..
I don’t do this often enough, many don’t either and it results in Dunning-Krueger type bad info

For lazy/non DIY types, this can be charged with DE to be used as a diatom filter but has its flaws....

yeah not exactly a “Vortex” but I have 3 of those and use off the shelf DE …you will need a pressure washer to release all the DE from that pleated cartridge

I wish a company would make a robust/really nice diatom filter these days, I would totally buy one. I am sure others would too if it was easy grab off the shelf and use to clean/clear tank of debris.

what ever happed to Vortex ? I have use a Magnum 300 in the distance past for that function

Haven't used it for DE yet but knowing I can does make that option viable and much easier than DE filters of old.

yeah, that’s what I was thinking

 

[Tamberav]

I agree with Paul on many things, especially feeding and hiding spots.

I do QT my fish though (in various ways) and I don't think because I got rid of all disease that they suddenly will be ill if exposed. They will be healthy fed/well and they still will have a healthy slime coat and immune system. I don't believe a person needs to inoculate them over and over to maintain health. There is tons of bacteria in the tank at all times.

 

[Arose231]

Increasing temp does nothing. This isn't freshwater .

Many people will wait 96 days or more once they loose cherished livestock and or big money.

Calling real effective cures stupid is not a good look. Sometimes when you don't agree with facts it's best to just keep it to yourself.

Nobody waits 90 plus days at this point your better of just buying a new tank and quarintine the fish with copper.

 

[Dom]

Nobody waits 90 plus days at this point your better of just buying a new tank and quarintine the fish with copper.

I wait 90 days and perhaps longer. As I said earlier; I'm a procrastinator, so its easy for me.

 

[Paul B]

Well maybe that is what people call "old tank syndrome" - a lack of diatom filter syndrome

So far my tank hasn't experienced Old Tank Syndrome. Maybe in 5 months when it is 55 years old I will have a problem.

Nobody disputes that. Or that UV kills them when free swimming. Or that peroxide can kill individual parasites. Or that a fresh water dip can kill them if they haven't embedded yet. Or any of a thousand things touted as a 'cure'. Nobody is actually telling you these things don't kill the parasite.

I actually don't believe any of those things kill ich, but I don't want to kill ich and have no reason to as I keep my fish immune. I'm just saying that if ich bothers you, a diatom filter will remove all parasites that go through it.

All of them in the tank,? No. Nothing will do that and I feel there is no need to kill ich. But if you want to severely reduce their numbers without poisoning your tank, a diatom filter is the best way to go and I can say that because I have been using a diatom filter for about 60 years, just not for ich.

I believe in @Paul B and his methodology…not sure my tank setup or my knowledge and experience matches his

Yes you can. I generally make all this stuff up. I find this hobby very easy with almost no problems but I feel we want to make it difficult by allowing our fish to get sick. But if it weren't for ich, 90% of these forums would not exist and we would all just sit around talking about how pretty or interesting our fish are or watch them spawn. That would be boring

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Nobody waits 90 plus days at this point your better of just buying a new tank and quarintine the fish with copper.

90 days isn’t required. The fallow period can be as short as 45 days, but 60 is safer.

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Shooter6]

Nobody waits 90 plus days at this point your better of just buying a new tank and quarintine the fish with copper.

You mean you don't! I do, when I got ich in my display, approximately 6 years ago, I pulled all my fish, put them it 2 40g totes all the fish that could handle chloroquine phosphate were treated with it. The wrasse that could not were treated with hyposalinity. I kept them in totes for 108 days. Then returned them to the display.

Ever since then all new fish go into a 40g qt. They stay there for 60 days, first 30 are hyposalinity, the next is observation. If anything shows up, the clock restarts with treatment of chloroquine or copper depending on fish. Then after treatment another 30 days of observation.

All coral frags go into a 90 day qt hold. Same with all inverts. It's really not that difficult and worth the effort if you buy expensive fish/corals.

Your making statements based on your effort, not everyone else's.

 

[Shooter6]

90 days isn’t required. The fallow period can be as short as 45 days, but 60 is safer.

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

There have been some strains of ich that survived longer then 60 days. That's why people have started going further like 76,96,and even 108 days.

Large water changes and vacuuming the sanded/ floor helps remove the cyst, lowering the tomatoes when they hatch. That can speed up the erratication

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

There have been some strains of ich that survived longer then 60 days. That's why people have started going further like 76,96,and even 108 days.

Large water changes and vacuuming the sanded/ floor helps remove the cyst, lowering the tomatoes when they hatch. That can speed up the erratication

There are no published reports of Cryptocaryon tomonts remaining viable beyond the 76 day maximum reported by Colorni under cold water, xeric (no bacteria) conditions. In his other papers, he gives 28 days as the longest normal viability time for tomonts under aquaculture conditions (add to that, the time spent at other stages, and you get to around 35 days).

Here is the full write-up I did on this subject:


Fallow tank

In some cases, the invertebrate population of an aquarium is highly valuable, so no treatment is made to the display tank. The fish are either lost or moved to a quarantine tank for treatment. The question then arises – “how long does Cryptocaryon remain infective in an aquarium when host fish are not present?” As early study from Japan seemed to indicate this time to be around 35 days. However, aquarists have seen that this time is not long enough to clear infections in some cases. The idea then developed (extrapolating information from scientific papers) that a tank must remain fallow (fishless) for at least 76 days before fish can safely be returned to the aquarium. This idea was widely promoted and became the “standard” for many aquarists. More recently, the original papers were studied, and it turns out that the 1997 article written by Colorni and Burgess just references his PhD thesis which isn't available for review. Then, his co-author Burgess was also the editor for the journal that published it - certainly a conflict of interest! This paper then got referenced by Noga 2010 (he lists 72 days). Things get a bit murky from there - if you read between the lines, there is some reference to one case at 68 degrees where they found viable tomonts in a xeric culture (no bacteria). Colorni himself seems to doubt his results apply to the real world, saying that at warmer temperatures and in the presence of bacteria, the tomonts probably don't last nearly as long. Therefore, the current thought is that at 81 degrees F., 45 days is an appropriate minimum fallow periods for Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium and Neobenedenia....and this coincides well with a 30-day copper treatment followed by two weeks of copper-free observation. However, some corals will be harmed if kept at 81 F. In those cases, a longer fallow period will be required. Failed fallow periods have been seen. In some instances, the failures can be traced back to the aquarist not having proper biosecurity. In other cases, the fish themselves carried an unresolved disease back into the fallowed aquarium.

 

[Tamberav]

Well it isn’t harmful to go 90 even if it’s overkill.

The long observation period on fish is certainly nice.

@Shooter6 how have the wrasses handled hypo for you? Do you run 1.009?

 

[Shooter6]

Well it isn’t harmful to go 90 even if it’s overkill.

The long observation period on fish is certainly nice.

@Shooter6 how have the wrasses handled hypo for you? Do you run 1.009?

Wrasse have handled hypo very well. I do run 1.09. I also give them a large tray filled with glass jewelry beads. The fine ones you get in bags at hobby lobby. Provides sleeping substrate that is inert and can be easily cleaned/sterilized.

 

[Paul B]

The long observation period on fish is certainly nice.

Good Morning Tamberav. I also give my fish a long observation period. I am observing them now as I have been for decades. The fish don't mind and like to be observed.

I just observe all of them together,

 

[klinker]

I don’t even think the copper would even come out of your LR or equipment with 10 x 100% WCs if you dumped the whole bottle in there.. lol I could be wrong.

You can use Poly Filter to remove the copper cut the pad to fit your filtration. It will turn the pad a certain color and let you know what it us pulling out.

 

[Reeferbadness]

I’ve had Ich in both my 200g tanks for years. Going fallow is, in my humble opinion, nuts! I added UV sterilizer and feed generously. All fish are doing great. When I add a new fish, 95% survive fine. If u want to look at a blank / fallow tank for 80 days, be my guest. I chose Ich management

 

[NewbieC123]

I tried Ich management in a 90 gallon. Went on vacation, had someone feeding, came back to an outbreak and lost all my fish. Went fallow for 76 days and I will always properly QT now.

 

[Rocky Mountain Reef]

Some bad advice here. Best bet is fallow and at 45-55 days at 81 degrees.
Dont start bombing tank with high concentration of copper. Safe level is 2.25-2.5.
At 6 copper level- you might as well prepare to change sand UNLESS you are going fish only for the future.
What ever copper based product you use, assure it says " Treats Oodinum".

Hi. I may have a bacterial/virus. Killing a good number of my fish. A large Achilles just went down. They all have a little ragged fins and then die quickly. I have lot's of other fish and SPS, so selective treatment is necessary....Any ideas?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi. I may have a bacterial/virus. Killing a good number of my fish. A large Achilles just went down. They all have a little ragged fins and then die quickly. I have lot's of other fish and SPS, so selective treatment is necessary....Any ideas?

Please post pics under white light intensity - no blue at your soonest
How are fish breathing. . . normal or labored?
Eating?

 

[Rocky Mountain Reef]

Please post pics under white light intensity - no blue at your soonest
How are fish breathing. . . normal or labored?
Eating?

I will send you pics soon....
Literally breathing normal one minute and next dead. eating like crazy....Elliot at Marine Collectors said it might be viral or bacterial...talked to him yesterday....I'm so flumoxed it's unsettling....

 

[Fenral]

/watching the show…

Copper is death … it will be forever leaching out of any rock etc… though in smaller amounts over time - invoke aliens quote” nuke them from orbit is the only way..” many sequels later …

 

[Cool tangs]

Some non-workable advice here. You could go fallow as @vetteguy53081 said, but you wanted "fast". Since you've hit the tank with copper and heat, you might as well do a complete tank reset. Fill the tank with freshwater (I always drain and fill again to remove residual salt). Then, hit the tank with 100 ppm household bleach (no surfactants, dyes or perfumes though). You might be better off using some hot tub solid sterilizer. 100 ppm = gallons times 100 divided by 266 to give grams of material needed.
Let that circulate for 24 hours, drain, rinse and refill. Add some dechlor and then establish the biofilter again. Remember though - if you don't quarantine your fish well, the very first fish you add could put you right back at this point again.

Jay

I was going to suggest something along the lines of this as well. If there is nothing in them drain them out give is a good scrub out even look at resealing the silicone whilst your at it and start fresh.

If your QTing all your fish in bulk you could put them in with the copper treatment I have done this before without issue. But I think the main issue I seem to get is if it is ich they have a thick cell wall. So not sure how effective the copper is on the tomonts but should wipe them over the life cycles.

I'd also like to add on top of this, depending on your QT skills and future plans. I would also highly advise getting a over rated high quality UV sterilizer running the correct flow rates. This should help better your odds if your QT process fails or white spots finds its way back in.

I will say from my experience, is you have to QT everything, every thing that goes into your tank. Corals, inverts, fish, rock, etc, etc. humblefish furoms is pretty great for getting more info. It's a deep dive and you can't slack off or deviate from the QT process. It will take that one day you slack off to undo all your hard work.

Everyone has there opinion. Most of the guys giving the advise have been QTing for a long time and are considered professionals. But please don't beat yourself up if you fail. I find white spot management can also be effective in keeping fish healthy. Others might disagree.

Jay has a lot of knowledge so I enjoy reading his content even though I don't QT anymore just manage. It's still very interesting and it's always good to try and understand and learn as much as you can about this hobby. I think anyway

Anyway sorry wanted to add onto this depending what your future goals are or if some one else reads this moving forward

Happy reefing