Instant ways to kill ich and velvet

[Clownreef]

There is a pandemic affecting the reefkeeping hobby..

Lack of patience.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

If it’s ich just let it be. Fish handle and overcome ich very well. You’re more likely to kill it pulling it from the display tank, putting it into a quarantine tank, and stressing the heck out of it with meds then just letting it be. If it’s eating, feed more and it will be clear in a week.

That is not true for moderate cases of ich.

Minor ich infections can be dealt with in some cases by using “ich management”, of which a good diet is one component.

Once the number of trophonts increases to about 30 or so on the fish, the disease goes into geometric progression and you need to treat the fish with either coppersafe or hyposalinity in order to save it.

Jay

 

[GARRIGA]

Im seeing some issues with the motor not being strong enough for diatomaceous earth

I tend to ignore Amazon reviews as often user error caused the bad review. Good part of Amazon being try it and return it if not satisfied. Will say this. Being smaller it does clog quickly. I have both models. Haven’t used the DE option but have used the micron filter option alone and the smaller one needs cleaning more often. Best used that by having a few extra cartridges. Easy enough to change out. Just don’t think that alone will remove ich but will clarify the water.

The bigger model isn’t that much larger placed horizontally and the flow can be diverted so it doesn’t cause surface agitation to the point it throws water over the side. The flow is very impressive on the original model

 

[cbnspanky]

I tend to ignore Amazon reviews as often user error caused the bad review. Good part of Amazon being try it and return it if not satisfied. Will say this. Being smaller it does clog quickly. I have both models. Haven’t used the DE option but have used the micron filter option alone and the smaller one needs cleaning more often. Best used that by having a few extra cartridges. Easy enough to change out. Just don’t think that alone will remove ich but will clarify the water.

The bigger model isn’t that much larger placed horizontally and the flow can be diverted so it doesn’t cause surface agitation to the point it throws water over the side. The flow is very impressive on the original model

You’ve convinced me. Just got one from Petco

 

[Matt1997]

That is not true for moderate cases of ich.

Minor ich infections can be dealt with in some cases by using “ich management”, of which a good diet is one component.

Once the number of trophonts increases to about 30 or so on the fish, the disease goes into geometric progression and you need to treat the fish with either coppersafe or hyposalinity in order to save it.

Jay

keep killing your fish then Jay!

In my experience having never lost a fish from ich, you are killing them by stressing them in QT and with meds. I see more people saying “my fish died from ich while in QT or during treatment” then “my fish died because I did nothing”. Yet you “experts” continue to push your own crap. Then when the fish dies you simply say “it must have been on its way out anyways or the fish must have been weak”.

Achilles Tang below as you can see covered in ich. Often said to be the most prone and likely to die from ich is still swimming happily in my tank today along with all other fish and tangs (all at one point had some to lots of spots).

 

[Arose231]

76 days fallow

That’s just plain out stupid who’s gonna wait that long. Use a UV stelizer. Use super ich cure and wait for 2 weeks. As well increase temp to 82 degrees

 

[Shooter6]

That’s just plain out stupid who’s gonna wait that long. Use a UV stelizer. Use super ich cure and wait for 2 weeks. As well increase temp to 82 degrees

Increasing temp does nothing. This isn't freshwater .

Many people will wait 96 days or more once they loose cherished livestock and or big money.

Calling real effective cures stupid is not a good look. Sometimes when you don't agree with facts it's best to just keep it to yourself.

 

[Lavey29]

That’s just plain out stupid who’s gonna wait that long. Use a UV stelizer. Use super ich cure and wait for 2 weeks. As well increase temp to 82 degrees

Wrong

And this is you right?

Clown has ich or velvet? What happened here. How to exterminate this parasite in the tank?

I recently had an ich or velvet outbreak in tank of 75 gallons. Most of the fish died. Porcupine puffer is still alive and healthy so is the snowflake eel and inverts 2 shrimp 2 starfish. Is this ich or velvet and how to get rid of it? https://share.icloud.com/photos/0226WHG5rZ7toheudK-e99jVQ

www.reef2reef.com

 

[GARRIGA]

That’s just plain out stupid who’s gonna wait that long. Use a UV stelizer. Use super ich cure and wait for 2 weeks. As well increase temp to 82 degrees

This is FOLLOW for inverts which doesn't react well to ich cures.

 

[Paul B]

A simple diatom filter will remove all parasites that "go through" it with no medication, guaranteed. Just my opinion.

But I won't get involved in silly arguments as I am not the God of fish as none of us are.

 

[Tamberav]

 

[Paul B]

I have a thread on here someplace on how to make a really good diatom filter for about $100.00.

My photo hosting thing isn't working for some reason now so I can't post a picture

 

[Tamberav]

I have a thread on here someplace on how to make a really good diatom filter for about $100.00.

My photo hosting thing isn't working for some reason now so I can't post a picture

Good Morning Paul

For lazy/non DIY types, this can be charged with DE to be used as a diatom filter but has it's flaws....

I wish a company would make a robust/really nice diatom filter these days, I would totally buy one. I am sure others would too if it was easy grab off the shelf and use to clean/clear tank of debris. This hobby seems to be missing this product and instead comes out with another LED or wavemaker in which we have tons of.

While the above one works.. it is all plastic housing with a real cheap foam circle instead of a o ring or such and a bit of a pain to learn how to charge then submerge in the tank inside a bucket and remove and yada yada. I have and use it for various things but it could certainly be made more user friendly.

 

[Paul B]

Tamberav, I don't know how people participate in this hobby without a diatom filter. I have been using one since the 60s, not for parasites, but just for general maintenance and when I collect green, muddy water.

If I were 20 years younger and maybe a little better looking I would manufacture the model I built. I actually made two models, one doesn't need powder.

I use one of them every few months to clean detritus and blow out pores in rock as the models I built are very powerful.

 

[Tamberav]

Tamberav, I don't know how people participate in this hobby without a diatom filter. I have been using one since the 60s, not for parasites, but just for general maintenance and when I collect green, muddy water.

If I were 20 years younger and maybe a little better looking I would manufacture the model I built. I actually made two models, one doesn't need powder.

I use one of them every few months to clean detritus and blow out pores in rock as the models I built are very powerful.

Well maybe that is what people call "old tank syndrome" - a lack of diatom filter syndrome

 

[GARRIGA]

Been promoting the Magnum filter since buying one in 2015 when they were less than $50. Haven't used it for DE yet but knowing I can does make that option viable and much easier than DE filters of old. Saw my first in action early 70s by a FW angelfish breeder and specifically to solve ich.

These days I'm moving toward sediment filtration which Paul uses as well and believe is what he's referring to on new invention. Can filter down to one micron although 10 micron for ich and velvet likely good enough. Fact is I'm designing QT for fish based on using an undergravel filter with no substrate drawn by a canister then returned through two or three step down low micron Big Blue cartridges finished by UVC. Goal of the canister to capture larger sediment to prolong life of low micron cartridges.

No medication. No water changes. Just change cartridges as needed. Employ in tank peroxide baths then dissipate that with UVC which will further destroy any pathogens and OH converts ammonia to nitrates which means I won't need to rely heavily on nitrification and perhaps eliminate it completely. Final touch being return last goes through Fuge/ATS so that entire system can be sealed as word has it ich can spread on droplets although that does seem far fetched and latter may or may not be needed. Plus ATS can solve nitrates. Which means this would likely work for inverts, too.

One other caveat being ozone introduced and dissipated constantly by UVC which would possibly negate the need for sediment filtration as I believe OH produced would oxidize all organics and constantly convert ammonia produced to nitrates. To keep it simple and safe, utilize UV that creates it's own ozone therefore no ozone produced when no UVC present as I need UVC to dissipate ozone produced. Assuming that's the case this would be simpler implementation along with continued in tank peroxide baths. For both fish and inverts but main concern being fish.

Goal is eliminate evaporation thereby stabilizing salinity and all parameters without moving fish for separate baths to reduce stress as I believe that in general that's the number one killer of life including humans.

Necessity the mother of invention or as prefer - innovation (tweaking old school and forgotten).

 

[Dom]

I've always had a hard rule of 90 days. I am a procrastinator, which makes it easy.

 

[Tamberav]

Been promoting the Magnum filter since buying one in 2015 when they were less than $50. Haven't used it for DE yet but knowing I can does make that option viable and much easier than DE filters of old. Saw my first in action early 70s by a FW angelfish breeder and specifically to solve ich.

These days I'm moving toward sediment filtration which Paul uses as well and believe is what he's referring to on new invention. Can filter down to one micron although 10 micron for ich and velvet likely good enough. Fact is I'm designing QT for fish based on using an undergravel filter with no substrate drawn by a canister then returned through two or three step down low micron Big Blue cartridges finished by UVC. Goal of the canister to capture larger sediment to prolong life of low micron cartridges.

No medication. No water changes. Just change cartridges as needed. Employ in tank peroxide baths then dissipate that with UVC which will further destroy any pathogens and OH converts ammonia to nitrates which means I won't need to rely heavily on nitrification and perhaps eliminate it completely. Final touch being return last goes through ATS so that entire system can be sealed as word has it ich can spread on droplets although that does seem far fetched and latter may or may not be needed. Plus ATS can solve nitrates. Which means this would likely work for inverts, too.

One other caveat being ozone introduced and dissipated constantly by UVC which would possibly negate the need for sediment filtration as I believe OH produced would oxidize all organics and constantly convert ammonia produced to nitrates. To keep it simple and safe, utilize UV that creates it's own ozone therefore no ozone produced when no UVC present as I need UVC to dissipate ozone produced. Assuming that's the case this would be simpler implementation along with continued in tank peroxide baths. For both fish and inverts but main concern being fish.

Goal is eliminate evaporation thereby stabilizing salinity and all parameters without moving fish for separate baths to reduce stress as I believe that in general that's the number one killer of life including humans.

Necessity the mother of invention or as prefer - innovation (tweaking old school and forgotten).

Sounds interesting since you are incorporating peroxide and stuff.


My current fish are close to finishing 14 days of copper at 2.25. I used Fritz 9 to start the filter (soaked the filter pad in it) and I have done nothing to that tank but feed live worms and clams and top off water.

Fish are thriving if I am being honest. It is very simple. Tank is a 40 breeder with about 20-30 gallons in it.


I see people use 10g and 5g as Qt tanks for multiple fish, usually tangs, and this is something I would never do. I always advocate for proper QT space and water quality and foods and mixing appropriate fish to limit aggression.

I also use dark colored clay pots instead of stark white pvc.

People cut corners on quarantine and they will find bad results.

As you said, stress is a big factor, small tanks, too many fish, poor diet, aggression, uncycled or poorly cycled/slow bottled bacteria and “scary” hiding spots all cause stress.

The fish are already removed from the ocean and shipped around the world and we drop them in copper then add all these extra stressors which we can control but don’t.. and wonder why they are dying.

If people are going to quarantine, they should take I more seriously.

 

[blecki]

A simple diatom filter will remove all parasites that "go through" it with no medication, guaranteed.

Nobody disputes that. Or that UV kills them when free swimming. Or that peroxide can kill individual parasites. Or that a fresh water dip can kill them if they haven't embedded yet. Or any of a thousand things touted as a 'cure'. Nobody is actually telling you these things don't kill the parasite.

But none of them kill it all.

 

[GARRIGA]

Sounds interesting since you are incorporating peroxide and stuff.


My current fish are close to finishing 14 days of copper at 2.25. I used Fritz 9 to start the filter (soaked the filter pad in it) and I have done nothing to that tank but feed live worms and clams and top off water.

Fish are thriving if I am being honest. It is very simple. Tank is a 40 breeder with about 20-30 gallons in it.


I see people use 10g and 5g as Qt tanks for multiple fish, usually tangs, and this is something I would never do. I always advocate for proper QT space and water quality and foods and mixing appropriate fish to limit aggression.

I also use dark colored clay pots instead of stark white pvc.

People cut corners on quarantine and they will find bad results.

As you said, stress is a big factor, small tanks, too many fish, poor diet, aggression, uncycled or poorly cycled/slow bottled bacteria and “scary” hiding spots all cause stress.

The fish are already removed from the ocean and shipped around the world and we drop them in copper then add all these extra stressors which we can control but don’t.. and wonder why they are dying.

If people are going to quarantine, they should take I more seriously.

Series of QT will be 24”x24” cubes plus AIO sump to house return water along with Fuge/ATS. Height around 16” which means about 40g plus AIO sump chamber.

Seen good results mentioned on using peroxide baths and as well as in display but I’m just taking a more aggressive approach in that my display treatment equal dosage as to ppm as with a bath. Use UV-C to dissipate the peroxide post treatment.

Could use copper if needed but not sure how that interacts with peroxide and/or UV-C. Honestly rather avoid any medications and just trying an alternative to TTM as I believe all that moving around just added stress for fish and myself.

Plus I’m not trying to eradicate all pathogens. Rather develop immunity because reality is at some point I might inadvertently introduce an issue. Plus I agree with Paul in gut loading fish and something I’ve been focused on with my snakes where proper food, environment and reduced stress has for the most part eliminated having to resort to medication except for one incident where it couldn’t be avoided.

Nature finds a way to protect and repair itself if given a chance.

As to white elbows. Not a fan. Schedule 80 my choice and might just use large couplings as goal is to keep the bottom bare in order for the canister to pull pathogens through the undergravel plate and although it likely won’t remove all it will remove likely enough to prevent overpopulation of any pathogen. Fingers crossed