Micro and nano bubble tank treatment

[The Macro Guy]

I won’t deny I was a little passive aggressive, it just gets a bit frustrating when I keep getting told there is very clear before and after data yet every time someone asks for it they just get slammed for being a skeptic. I read the whole of the other thread, and I could have missed it, it’s very possible but as far as I saw there was no before and after pH data, no before and after PAR data (while it CAN result in an increase, clearer water does not always mean more PAR) and the only before and after numbers I saw were ORP which is a great start but it was just one before number and one after number. The main reason I am asking is that I have seen people say there are already graphs which is why I asked to see them so as far as I am aware I am only asking for things that already exist.



At this point I will actually be trying it in a couple of weeks, I can’t get anything locally so I need to order in an air pump and air stone and will need to do a bit of searching to see which ones are recommended. Frankly it has been replies like yours that have kept me from trying it sooner.

As far as I am aware generally threads are also for people to ask questions which can add to the discussion? Especially if this is something they want to try, which I actually do. If my questions were answered with “sorry mate, we don’t actually have any of that data” then maybe I would ‘move along’ instead all I have seen is “this has already been posted” but I have looked and can’t find it.



Wow. I really don’t know how you expect me to respond to that like an adult. Full disclosure, I still haven't had a chance to read this thread so what I am asking could very well have already been posted. But you say “charts and graphs anymore” which again implies they have been posted and as I said, I read the whole other thread and can’t seem to find them. If you have them, again, I would like to see them. Yes, it is a bit of a pain for you to post them again if they have already been posted but hey, it’s a nice thing to do.

There is no way I am not going to say something is false or edited (unless it looks like you literally just drew it in MS paint) and I actually take a bit of offense that you think I would be so petty. I am not trying to “disprove” anything. I have heard about this interesting new method. And have read people say that it increases all these parameters, sounds great! I want to try it. Can I see how you know it increased x values?



Actually mate I read your PM and I really appreciated it. Very well written and friendly. It was actually what pushed me to give bubbling a go soon. So I haven’t ignored it at all! I have definitely been meaning to reply but you said that everything I asked for was posted in this thread and honestly I just haven’t had a chance to read the thread yet (been on nights and a bit of OT) so I really want to do that before I reply. Hopefully I will be able to read it tonight and tomorrow night if it isn't too busy or on my days off at the latest and I will certainly reply when I finish.

I will also be joining the page you linked, as I said just been pretty busy, sorry you thought I was being rude that wasn’t my intention at all. As I said, really appreciated your message.

Long story short, you're trying it without worrying about people shoving graphs, shiny buttons, and colorful labels in your face. Good for you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

None of the original posters can post in the last thread, other than the people arguing against it odly enough, ...

Well, on that point, if not others, you are without question incorrect. People on both "sides" are prevented from replying after they the broke the terms of service agreement.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I'm one of the people being prevented. But I must say I don't know why. So I will no longer ask questions about MB cause that is all I did.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm one of the people being prevented. But I must say I don't know why. So I will no longer ask questions about MB cause that is all I did.

A moderator will get back to you privately.

 

[Greenstreet.1]

I was waiting for that since it happened a few weeks back but nothing so I left it like that.

 

[The Macro Guy]

Well, on that point, if not others, you are without question incorrect. People on both "sides" are prevented from replying after they the broke the terms of service agreement.

Right,

I'm one of the people being prevented. But I must say I don't know why. So I will no longer ask questions about MB cause that is all I did.

But since youre clearly still following the subject of MS, have you tried it yet and have any data you want to share with us all? Something we possibly can use to help improve the method, or changes or hazards we can keep an eye on?

 

[Thales]

Never mind

 

[druckle]

Strictly nonscientific observations after 1 hour bubbling

I'm in the process of acquiring a few bits and pieces to try my DIY bubble treatment device but curiosity got the better of me and I put a couple of wood air blocks near the return pump on my 300 gal. Fowler. Sure, my observations are anecdotal however they are sufficiently clear to maybe worth mentioning.

First this tank has been a vinegar consumer for about 6 months to deal with nitrates since it's predominately tangs who are well fed to say the least. One of my daily chores has been to brush the live rock almost daily because of the white bacteria strings resulting from the vinegar dosing. I purposely haven't brushed the rock today to observe if the oft reported rock cleaning is true.

After an hour of bubbling with not-so-fine bubbles released near the surface returns I'm seeing a whole LOT of clumpy/stringy bacteria bits floating all over the place. Before the bubbling began there was no observable floaters in the water column. It's obvious to me that something about the bubbles is dislodging a lot of bacteria strings that otherwise I would have to brush off. That in itself is enough positive experimental feed back that I'm now really eager to create a better fog from deeper in the aquarium while I observe the long term overall effects of bubbling.

 

[Squid]

I won’t deny I was a little passive aggressive, it just gets a bit frustrating when I keep getting told there is very clear before and after data yet every time someone asks for it they just get slammed for being a skeptic. I read the whole of the other thread, and I could have missed it, it’s very possible but as far as I saw there was no before and after pH data, no before and after PAR data (while it CAN result in an increase, clearer water does not always mean more PAR) and the only before and after numbers I saw were ORP which is a great start but it was just one before number and one after number. The main reason I am asking is that I have seen people say there are already graphs which is why I asked to see them so as far as I am aware I am only asking for things that already exist.



At this point I will actually be trying it in a couple of weeks, I can’t get anything locally so I need to order in an air pump and air stone and will need to do a bit of searching to see which ones are recommended. Frankly it has been replies like yours that have kept me from trying it sooner.

As far as I am aware generally threads are also for people to ask questions which can add to the discussion? Especially if this is something they want to try, which I actually do. If my questions were answered with “sorry mate, we don’t actually have any of that data” then maybe I would ‘move along’ instead all I have seen is “this has already been posted” but I have looked and can’t find it.



Wow. I really don’t know how you expect me to respond to that like an adult. Full disclosure, I still haven't had a chance to read this thread so what I am asking could very well have already been posted. But you say “charts and graphs anymore” which again implies they have been posted and as I said, I read the whole other thread and can’t seem to find them. If you have them, again, I would like to see them. Yes, it is a bit of a pain for you to post them again if they have already been posted but hey, it’s a nice thing to do.

There is no way I am not going to say something is false or edited (unless it looks like you literally just drew it in MS paint) and I actually take a bit of offense that you think I would be so petty. I am not trying to “disprove” anything. I have heard about this interesting new method. And have read people say that it increases all these parameters, sounds great! I want to try it. Can I see how you know it increased x values?



Actually mate I read your PM and I really appreciated it. Very well written and friendly. It was actually what pushed me to give bubbling a go soon. So I haven’t ignored it at all! I have definitely been meaning to reply but you said that everything I asked for was posted in this thread and honestly I just haven’t had a chance to read the thread yet (been on nights and a bit of OT) so I really want to do that before I reply. Hopefully I will be able to read it tonight and tomorrow night if it isn't too busy or on my days off at the latest and I will certainly reply when I finish.

I will also be joining the page you linked, as I said just been pretty busy, sorry you thought I was being rude that wasn’t my intention at all. As I said, really appreciated your message.

Did you ever find any graphs or data? I've been searching for weeks but still can't find any. Can you pm me a link if you did find any?

 

[TD13]

So someone asked WAAAAYYY back like pg. 5 about doing this in a nano. I have a 28 gal, can I put an air stone in next to the return and will it work the same way? Is this scale-able?

 

[hybridazn]

Hi everyone,

We love the fact that this topic is generating so much attention and thought, but we need to keep this thread civil. Personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated.

Thanks everyone!

 

[reefwiser]

https://earth.stanford.edu/news/protecting-coral-reefs-bubbles

 

[redfishbluefish]

https://earth.stanford.edu/news/protecting-coral-reefs-bubbles

Interesting article Ed (especially for this bubble debate), but the first thing that came to my mind was the release of CO2 from ocean waters to the atmosphere is just like fossil fuel burners....and eventually it will return to the ocean as acid rain. Now they did say "reduce localized ocean acidity", but still, it just ends up back in the ocean. Once carbon emissions are reduced/eliminated, I could see this method being used in the oceans. But again, good fodder for the bubble debate on our tanks.

 

[reefwiser]

Found article this morning on the coral mailing list.

 

[Thales]

Interesting article Ed (especially for this bubble debate), but the first thing that came to my mind was the release of CO2 from ocean waters to the atmosphere is just like fossil fuel burners....and eventually it will return to the ocean as acid rain. Now they did say "reduce localized ocean acidity", but still, it just ends up back in the ocean. Once carbon emissions are reduced/eliminated, I could see this method being used in the oceans. But again, good fodder for the bubble debate on our tanks.

The idea that bubbling air into water with high CO2 to raise pH is well understood and has been in hobby literature since the 90's at least and can be done in the sump. The question usually is how much CO2 is actually in your water, and will bubbling air into the tank raise pH enough to be worth doing. Randy goes into detail about it in several articles including this one: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

 

[TrPPnN]

Interesting article Ed (especially for this bubble debate), but the first thing that came to my mind was the release of CO2 from ocean waters to the atmosphere is just like fossil fuel burners....and eventually it will return to the ocean as acid rain. Now they did say "reduce localized ocean acidity", but still, it just ends up back in the ocean. Once carbon emissions are reduced/eliminated, I could see this method being used in the oceans. But again, good fodder for the bubble debate on our tanks.

I believe if you saw the entire article, they mention using CO2 scrubbers made of carbolime soda chips to absorb the CO2 or bubbling the degassed CO2 into Kalkwasser (lime water to contain the CO2.

We have all read about sealing up kalkwasser immediately after creating the solution being that it has a very high affinity to absorbing CO2 from the air.

 

[TrPPnN]

The idea that bubbling air into water with high CO2 to raise pH is well understood and has been in hobby literature since the 90's at least and can be done in the sump. The question usually is how much CO2 is actually in your water, and will bubbling air into the tank raise pH enough to be worth doing. Randy goes into detail about it in several articles including this one: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

The microbubbling starts in the sump.?

Seems like this method raises more questions than simple straightforward answers. LOL

I guess that's a good thing!

 

[Thales]

Bubbling big bubbles (fed from outside air) straight from 1/4 inch tubing in the sump of a tank with depressed pH due to CO2 will raise the pH.

 

[Saltine]

re-positioned my bubbler last night, seemed to have achieved the perfect bubble, with no bubbles popping visibly on the surface, and the entire tank just fills with them.

Salt

 

[McMullen]

@Saltine, details please