Mindstream a cheaper/better alternative to Trident? What's the catch

SharkbaitMuhaha · Sep 10, 2018

Hi all,

New here and in process of building a Reefer 625 XXL. I have been eyeing the Mindstream which according to the vendor at MACNA will be shipping in early 2019. They said it would cost about 1000$ and then 30$/month to switch out the disks.

Alternatively, the Trident is supposed to be more expensive, larger, and monitors Cal/Mag/Alk only. The rep at MACNA said cost would be around 40$ a month. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around why this product would cost more and do much less.

I plan on using APEX as my controller for pretty much everything but am wondering if there's something I'm missing here as far as Trident goes....

ca1ore · Sep 10, 2018

Mindstream has been 'talking' about their offering for years and years. I will believe it when I see it. Perhaps it will be great, perhaps it won't; lets just see when it is actually available.

hart24601 · Sep 10, 2018

I was going to say the same thing, I wouldn't exactly depend on mindstream ever being released. There are some old threads about it on here, it's been a mess and the technology it would rely on hasn't really been proven to work, it has been more of a concept without any demonstrable results from what I remember.

Opus · Sep 10, 2018

As others stated, Mindstream has been saying they are shipping next quarter for 3 years now. From what I understand they are no longer going to honor their crowd funding price. I could be wrong, but not sure the mindsteam is going to work with Apex. You also have to look at future viability. Mindstream keeps having to raise money and being late to the game, there is no guarantee that they will be around in a year or 2, which means no more supply of disks. Finally, Mindstream has been horrible with communications. Just check their facebook page. They will post once every 3 to 6 months and never actually reply back to peoples questions or concerns. If that is any indication of their customer service for their product, they won't last long.

As for testing, Cal/Mag/Alk is mainly what everyone tests for regularly. The other things the Mindstream will test is cool, but really not needed on a constant basis.

reef_ranch · Sep 10, 2018

I spent some time talking to the Mindstream guys at MACNA this weekend. I was on board from the beginning with this thing and while it has taken much longer that I had hoped, it sure looks like they have solved the problems inherent in such a big idea, including accurately measuring CO2. I'm very excited to see this product come to market.

They do have working units with beta testers (not me unfortunately) and I was able to take a look at the phone app which they have linked to each operating Mindstream. The UI is very well designed.

ca1ore · Sep 10, 2018

That's all great, and I'd be happy to see it actually come to market. Until it does, it's all supposition and assumption.

reef_ranch · Sep 10, 2018

For the vast majority of people out there, you are absolutely correct. You haven't seen anything so all you can do is wait. And the wait has been long.

But those who have seen it in action have more data to rely on, not merely supposition and assumption. After taking as deep a dive as I could into the technology and the people behind the project, seeing it operate and viewing the app and the connected units, my personal opinion (which admittedly is nothing any stranger to me should rely on), is that Mindstream has this right and ready to go. And I own and love the Alkatronic!

gcarroll · Sep 10, 2018

acesq said:
For the vast majority of people out there, you are absolutely correct. You haven't seen anything so all you can do is wait. And the wait has been long.

But those who have seen it in action have more data to rely on, not merely supposition and assumption. After taking as deep a dive as I could into the technology and the people behind the project, seeing it operate and viewing the app and the connected units, my personal opinion (which admittedly is nothing any stranger to me should rely on), is that Mindstream has this right and ready to go. And I own and love the Alkatronic!

Agreed 100% I too have seen one in action and am seriously impressed! Looking forward to the release.

Opus · Sep 10, 2018

It still takes a lot of money to get it to market. I've seen several stories lately of startup companies having a great product but they got to production and ran out of money with a warehouse full of product they couldn't ship out. They have some big investors and those investors are going to want a return soon. I'm not sure the market is there for this kind of expensive product to get the return they will want. As I've stated before, I believe they were hoping to get bought up by one of the big boys in the market and now with all the delays that isn't going to happen. If Indo stays closed we could start seeing this hobby shrink, especially if the fish supply gets hit next. That will hurt them, but of course all the other companies will also take a hit.

reef_ranch · Sep 10, 2018

Valid points, but consider that Hanna Instruments is not reliant on the aquarium market which is pretty small regardless of what happens in indo. The technology embedded in this product likely has significant value beyond our market as well. And they seem to have funding under control, having already poured more money into it than you can imagine.

Opus · Sep 10, 2018

acesq said:
Valid points, but consider that Hanna Instruments is not reliant on the aquarium market which is pretty small regardless of what happens in indo. The technology embedded in this product likely has significant value beyond our market as well. And they seem to have funding under control, having already poured more money into it than you can imagine.

Could be. I had a router that some guy had done a kickstarter to get to market. It was a family oriented router that allowed you complete control over who did what online. It was a really nice well featured product and he was making new improvements all the time. Only stayed on the market for a year or so though. Apparently Comcast liked something about it and bought it from him and shut the project down. I never knew exactly what they got out of it. They never brought a similar product to market.

ca1ore · Sep 11, 2018

acesq said:
But those who have seen it in action have more data to rely on, not merely supposition and assumption. After taking as deep a dive as I could into the technology and the people behind the project, seeing it operate and viewing the app and the connected units, my personal opinion (which admittedly is nothing any stranger to me should rely on), is that Mindstream has this right and ready to go. And I own and love the Alkatronic!

Whether it is 'supposition and assumption' or not is immaterial to me: I assume it is, until it isn't. The history of failed products is littered with good ideas and promising concepts; and pouring in money is not guarantee of success (just ask any competent venture capitalist) Anyhow, not to beat the proverbial dead fish, that you say it is ready to go is wonderful. I personally stopped paying attention a few years ago, so am keen to see what comes to market.

surgeon1 · Sep 11, 2018

anyone know if the mindstream will work with my cerebra VII controller? we should take bets on which will be ready first.

Darrell Brady · Jun 21, 2019

I believe its close to being released now. I would buy it over the trident any day.

Opus · Jun 22, 2019

Darrell Brady said:
I believe its close to being released now. I would buy it over the trident any day.

Their poor communication with their possible customer base would keep me from buying from them. It has been "close" to release for at least 2 years now. I wish them the best but unless they have revenue streams outside this hobby, I don't see them making it long term. As I stated above, they have investors and I'm sure they are going to want to see some good returns and see them sooner rather than later.

BlueCursor · Jun 26, 2019

They have released. $995 + $35/mo for the disk. If you pledged in their failed Kickstarter 2+ years ago, you get a 30% discount.

They are talking about integrating with a dosing solution, but they are not saying what dosing manufacturer, etc. Given the fact that their product is 3+ years late in releasing, I think I have to ignore their dosing solution integration because it will not happen anytime in the near future.

Other than being 3+ years late and behind Trident which is only about $23/mo. for reagents ($45 for 2 months), it's a tough call. I have temp, pH, salinity probes already so they aren't much of a plus. I don't have oxygen, I can calculate CO2 just like they do. I may pull the trigger simply because the 30% discount pushes it over the edge for me. I still wish it did Nitrate.