No love for MH?

[Jacked Reefer]

Got a metal halide! It’s looking goooood

 

[ectoaesthetics]

Came into the hobby with a 55, got into nanos... the MH created huge temp swings in a 10 gallon. Fell in love with LEDs for this purpose... but cannot ever justify putting that much electricity through a couple of bulbs again. Yes I understand that people tinker with LEDs too much... just don’t tinker with’em. Will actually run an LED/T5 combo on my next tank (which will be a 60 cube) still way more energy efficient. I would run T5 with MH anyway. I for one will never go back.

 

[Reefs of Space]

I use this same fixture, how deep is your tank? I've got mine about 8" off the waters surface to the bottom of the fixture.

My tank is 36" by 12" and 17" tall. I think it's a 30 gal. Basically the same size as the light lol. I just measured and it's actually only 3" above the water.

 

[Reefs of Space]

Could you share your full lighting schedule with me please? That'd be awesome

Yeah sure. I have 2 hours overlap where everything is on. Here it is
1pm-1am actinic LEDs 36w
2pm-5pm DIY cree LEDs 80w
4pm-10pm metal halides 2x 175w 14k
7pm-11pm PCs 2x 96w
8pm-12am DIY cree LEDs 80w

 

[Jay Norris]

As I tie all of this back into the original question, what I see from the majority of long-term hobbyists with high end tanks, a good percentage of them do rely on Metal Halide lighting at a much higher clip than frontrunners and noobies. It is a shame that most of the people do not post because they have tanks that are truly inspirational, but they do it with older lighting, AC pumps, CaRx, Closed Loops or Tunze pumps and other things that are made to last and do last. They also have larger tanks usually with 180g and up. None of this is sexy compared to a brand new Red Sea Reefer with a clean sump, new apex, sleek lights, etc. Even if they did post, they get sick of fighting with the noobies. The disappear because they need nothing from the community.

If one of these more-common reefers (the ones that I see every day that I posted about above) were to log on and post about how their coral is thriving and they have no algae, then people would take it like they are doing it all right and their experience is equivalent to somebody who has had a TOTM quality reef for a decade. To be fair, their green star polyps, mushrooms and green palys are thriving... in water quality like sewage. However, when you dig in and see that they have no idea that carbonate and calcium need to be supplemented, which is why any stony corals died 5 years ago, and that their nitrates and phosphates are so high that algae cannot grow. This is how you get such wide-ranging opinions of success, but in actuality this is not really success. There is no such thing as a "line drive in the book" in reefing and some things truly are better than others. This is why I hate it when people say that "different things work for different people" or "there is no right or wrong way" - while technically true, the vast majority of the MOST successful people do more things similar than they do different. Most of the time, if you dig into the outliers, you see why they are outliers.

Hi, maybe in the area of the world you live in, a lot of aquarist are like that, but not in the area of the world I live in, as most of the aquarist I see and know, love their tanks and only want the best for them, and are always looing into the new and old ways to run an aquarium.

 

[Bronx19]

I turned to a spectra when I started my new tank a year ago. Like all the rest, I did endless research, watched all the BRS videos and asked everyone the usual, "Hydra or Radion?"

I cannot tolerate the disco of LED, its atrocious. But then I had the options of Kessil or put diffusers on the LEDs. The cost of all this was becoming astronomical, until one day I spotted a 2x150w + 4x54w used Spectra that had been over a freshwater tank. I went and had a look, this thing was spotless, beautiful. I picked it up for $200.

I have this light mounted 9" above the water and I'm getting 180PAR on the bottom of a 18" high tank. The powder coat steel, glass and stainless fittings are just in another league to the plastic crap surrounding the premium LED lights. I see the Radions at the LFS flopping forwards on those plastic mounts, its rubbish.

I then attempted to place a Kessil A360WE on the center of the tank to bring the PAR up in the middle, but I sold it 8 weeks later. The shimmer from the Kessil is not the same as the MH, its horribly synthetic looking.

All in all, I just cant justify spending thousands of dollars on LED to get a lesser result than we had 10 years ago. I love the idea of hanging MH and turning it on. You get the entire spectrum of light, massive punch, nice spread, natural shimmer lines and the SPS love it.

 

[Jay Norris]

I turned to a spectra when I started my new tank a year ago. Like all the rest, I did endless research, watched all the BRS videos and asked everyone the usual, "Hydra or Radion?"

I cannot tolerate the disco of LED, its atrocious. But then I had the options of Kessil or put diffusers on the LEDs. The cost of all this was becoming astronomical, until one day I spotted a 2x150w + 4x54w used Spectra that had been over a freshwater tank. I went and had a look, this thing was spotless, beautiful. I picked it up for $200.

I have this light mounted 9" above the water and I'm getting 180PAR on the bottom of a 18" high tank. The powder coat steel, glass and stainless fittings are just in another league to the plastic crap surrounding the premium LED lights. I see the Radions at the LFS flopping forwards on those plastic mounts, its rubbish.

I then attempted to place a Kessil A360WE on the center of the tank to bring the PAR up in the middle, but I sold it 8 weeks later. The shimmer from the Kessil is not the same as the MH, its horribly synthetic looking.

All in all, I just cant justify spending thousands of dollars on LED to get a lesser result than we had 10 years ago. I love the idea of hanging MH and turning it on. You get the entire spectrum of light, massive punch, nice spread, natural shimmer lines and the SPS love it.

 

[Jay Norris]

Hi, what disco effect are you talking about, I never had that with my LED's, and what cheap plastic are you talking about, as my lights are German made using the best materials available, yes and those wonderful Iwaski 6500K bulbs were just beautiful, when they were the only good M/H bulbs you could buy at the time. I have been there nd done that, and in my opinion from using M/H, VHO, T5 bulbs to the new high end LED's, they all served a purpose, and all will still grow corals. It's just the idea, that to lot of people new to the market prefer LED lighting to get started with, and in my opinion that will be a mistake, unless they do a lot of research on how to program these lights to get the same amount of par and the correct color spectrum. LED lights are not the plug and play type lights M/H, T5, or VHO lights are, they take time and effort to get the correct parameters programmed into the lights, and once you figure out how to do this they are amazing lights, and will do anything and a lot more than a M/H light will do. So for the aquarist out there, it's a good thing M/H, and T5 lights are till there, as they are an alternative excellent way to light an aquarium, and grow happy corals.

 

[Jacked Reefer]

Hi, what disco effect are you talking about, I never had that with my LED's, and what cheap plastic are you talking about, as my lights are German made using the best materials available, yes and those wonderful Iwaski 6500K bulbs were just beautiful, when they were the only good M/H bulbs you could buy at the time. I have been there nd done that, and in my opinion from using M/H, VHO, T5 bulbs to the new high end LED's, they all served a purpose, and all will still grow corals. It's just the idea, that to lot of people new to the market prefer LED lighting to get started with, and in my opinion that will be a mistake, unless they do a lot of research on how to program these lights to get the same amount of par and the correct color spectrum. LED lights are not the plug and play type lights M/H, T5, or VHO lights are, they take time and effort to get the correct parameters programmed into the lights, and once you figure out how to do this they are amazing lights, and will do anything and a lot more than a M/H light will do. So for the aquarist out there, it's a good thing M/H, and T5 lights are till there, as they are an alternative excellent way to light an aquarium, and grow happy corals.

There is no “better” solution.
Just because you shell out 5 grand for some leds and a controller doesn’t mean your “better”.
The lighting systems are all different and have ups and downs, and people can use what they want without having to feel bad about their choice.
I may also find your claims of superiority more believeable if you had a study or article to back you up.

 

[naterealbig]

The few very high end LED light fixtures are all full spectrum, and will grow any coral, just as well as a M/H light. The trouble with LED's is they are not plug and play like M/H's and T5's, but that is changing with the new programs that you can program into your lights.

No, they are not. The warm (and in some instance cool) white LED's are the only LED's in these fixtures that are "full" spectrum. All the other LED's in these fixtures cover narrow bands of the light spectrum. I guess you can achieve this if you run your whites at 100%, however I doubt that is the case. I agree - some of the newer LED units are coming out with custom lighting schedules, or with limitations on how much the user can deviate from an "optimum" spectrum.

 

[naterealbig]

I believe the Mitra's, Radion's, and Orpheks are all full spectrum, and as far as brightness and PAR, these LED lights will match any M/H light 400 watt and below, and if you use more LED lights you will even surpass the 400 watt lights.

This might be true, but only if you are running all of your Radion channels at 100%. I have never seen an instance where this is the case.

Hi, what disco effect are you talking about, I never had that with my LED's, and what cheap plastic are you talking about, as my lights are German made using the best materials available, yes and those wonderful Iwaski 6500K bulbs were just beautiful, when they were the only good M/H bulbs you could buy at the time.

By the "disco" effect, the poster is noting the separation in the individual LED colors reflecting off of objects in the tank, such as red, blue, green on the sand bed. I observed this as well with the last LED's I used (Radion G3 Pros). I think the issue has been completely addressed with the new Radion diffuser, and was never an issue to begin with for the Kessils. Most of the newer LED's that are not incorporating a diffuser into the design will exhibit this phenomenon.

 

[oreo54]

Mh's aren't "exactly" free from narrow bands..
http://php.scripts.psu.edu/users/s/b/sbj4/aquarium/articles/MetalHalideLamps2.htm

Though, yes, blended better..

 

[Jay Norris]

There is no “better” solution.
Just because you shell out 5 grand for some leds and a controller doesn’t mean your “better”.
The lighting systems are all different and have ups and downs, and people can use what they want without having to feel bad about their choice.
I may also find your claims of superiority more believeable if you had a study or article to back you up.

Did you read my post, I was not saying LED’s are better than M/H’s or any other light, I stated with my lights I have no disco ball effect or lack of PAR or spectrum. I also used M/H lights for over 3 decades, but now that I use the Mitra LED’s, I will never use M/H’s again.

 

[Jay Norris]

Oh, what contr

Did you read my post, I was not saying LED’s are better than M/H’s or any other light, I stated with my lights I have no disco ball effect or lack of PAR or spectrum. I also used M/H lights for over 3 decades, but now that I use the Mitra LED’s, I will never use M/H’s again.

There is no “better” solution.
Just because you shell out 5 grand for some leds and a controller doesn’t mean your “better”.
The lighting systems are all different and have ups and downs, and people can use what they want without having to feel bad about their choice.
I may also find your claims of superiority more believeable if you had a study or article to back you up.

There is no “better” solution.
Just because you shell out 5 grand for some leds and a controller doesn’t mean your “better”.
The lighting systems are all different and have ups and downs, and people can use what they want without having to feel bad about their choice.
I may also find your claims of superiority more believeable if you had a study or article to back you up.[/QUOTE Hi what controller a you referring to?

 

[Jay Norris]

No, they are not. The warm (and in some instance cool) white LED's are the only LED's in these fixtures that are "full" spectrum. All the other LED's in these fixtures cover narrow bands of the light spectrum. I guess you can achieve this if you run your whites at 100%, however I doubt that is the case. I agree - some of the newer LED units are coming out with custom lighting schedules, or with limitations on how much the user can deviate from an "optimum" spectrum.

Believe me the Mitra’s, Orpheus, and Radions all produce a full spectrum light display, just like my previous M/H T5 combo. I did a lot of research on LED lighting before I would risk losing all my SPS corals due to inferior lighting. You do know there are a lot of very successful SPS tanks that are only lit by LED’s.

 

[Jay Norris]

This might be true, but only if you are running all of your Radion channels at 100%. I have never seen an instance where this is the case.



By the "disco" effect, the poster is noting the separation in the individual LED colors reflecting off of objects in the tank, such as red, blue, green on the sand bed. I observed this as well with the last LED's I used (Radion G3 Pros). I think the issue has been completely addressed with the new Radion diffuser, and was never an issue to begin with for the Kessils. Most of the newer LED's that are not incorporating a diffuser into the design will exhibit this phenomenon.

I know what the disco ball effect is, and with the Mitra’s I use they don’t have the disco ball effect due to the fact they use parabolic reflectors just like my old M/H fixtures.

 

[oreo54]

I know what the disco ball effect is, and with the Mitra’s I use they don’t have the disco ball effect due to the fact they use parabolic reflectors just like my old M/H fixtures.

Those are nice units.
https://premiumaquatics.com/products/ghl-mitras-lx-6200hv-black.html

 

[Jacked Reefer]

Did you read my post, I was not saying LED’s are better than M/H’s or any other light, I stated with my lights I have no disco ball effect or lack of PAR or spectrum. I also used M/H lights for over 3 decades, but now that I use the Mitra LED’s, I will never use M/H’s again.

I’m sorry if I took it wrong. It sounded like you were saying leds were more effective than halides and t5s when wielded by an expert.

 

[Jay Norris]

I’m sorry if I took it wrong. It sounded like you were saying leds were more effective than halides and t5s when wielded by an expert.

Ok NP.

 

[Bronx19]

Hi, what disco effect are you talking about, I never had that with my LED's, and what cheap plastic are you talking about.

If you cant see the disco ball/static effect of undiffused LED, you're probably just used to it or cant see it. The Radion housing and the mount are flimsy plastic. It cant hold the weight of the nit and bends forward so the fixture is pointing at the back wall slightly.