No love for MH?

[naterealbig]

I run mine at 100%. I personally don't care for the blue look at all.

There is no real data on either side that one is better than the others. There is no real information that suggests that a given PAR level from a MH is all that different from a PAR level from an LED. (Or if there is I'd like to see it). Otherwise it comes down to personal preference IMHO. I like the way my Radions 'look' on the tank as compared to the bulky metal halide fixtures, they are quieter than my old MH fixtures. I like not having to change the bulbs and I have seen no difference in coral growth. As far as cost - isn't it similar to buying an iPhone or an android phone - people still argue about this on forums? Some people like the look/feel of an iPhone - among other things. In the end, they are both phones.

I tend not to tinker with my lights.

+1 on the noise, although moist fans I've had on any type of lighting fixture are quieter than some other piece of equipment on the tank, and they all get louder over time. It's a shame the Sfiligoi and Spectra fixtures aren't in production anymore - these are silent because they didn't have fans

The Giesemann Infiniti is a fanless option that is still in production, and I prefer the look of a sleek German or Italian MH fixture hung over a tank to most LED mounting options I've seen.

 

[naterealbig]

Running heaters can cause worse evaporation than halides with fans. What's bad environmentally about a chiller? The electricity?

Hey DCS- perhaps the poster is referencing the environmental footprint of the R134a (same coolant used in any home AC unit) used as the chiller coolant?

 

[MnFish1]

Hey Brian, my Giesemann Spectra in its current configuration is running at 716 watts. This is about 100 more watts than the 6 x XR-15s, or the 3 x Orphek Atlantik that I considered running. In Florida we are talking literally a few extra pennies a day. I have never, ever run a chiller on my halide lit tanks, and I have been using halides since 2002. A nice fan costs me about $9 bucks at target, and is easier for me to install than a phosban reactor..... While the idea certainly sounds nice, I didn't see any noticeable difference in my electricity bill when running G3s (i loved them), and the whole energy savings argument for LEDs is tough for me to swallow.

Do you have an air conditioner? Does your air conditioner have to run more because of your lights? Would you have run your 6 xr15's at 100% all the time? I don't know how much electricity costs in Florida - but just by your own calculations your MH lights compared to LED (if your LED's were at max power - which many people don't do) would cost 15% more . Im not trying to debate - but - here (believe it or not) - people complain about LED lights on Christmas trees being not 'eco friendly'.

 

[DSC reef]

Hey DCS- perhaps the poster is referencing the environmental footprint of the R134a (same coolant used in any home AC unit) used as the chiller coolant?

Could be. I know the chillers I've owned couldn't be refilled. Chillers a need for us so were getting a new one with the tank.

 

[jda]

You can put a bullet valve on the chiller and refill it. Make sure that you use the right type of refrigerant. If you are handy, you can put (solder) a valve on the end of the service pipe that comes out of the compressor.

 

[naterealbig]

Do you have an air conditioner? Does your air conditioner have to run more because of your lights? Would you have run your 6 xr15's at 100% all the time? I don't know how much electricity costs in Florida - but just by your own calculations your MH lights compared to LED (if your LED's were at max power - which many people don't do) would cost 15% more . Im not trying to debate - but - here (believe it or not) - people complain about LED lights on Christmas trees being not 'eco friendly'.

I live in Tampa, and I think I would die without air conditioning. I'm not sure if my AC runs more because of the lights, but probably. Not enough to make a noticeable difference in Florida during the summer though, and not at all during our whole 3 days of winter!

I never ran my G3s at 100% but I also ran them on a 10-12 hour photoperiod, and I'm only running my halides for 5 hours a day. Will bump them up to 6 when I start adding corals.

Jeez! I can't imagine people arguing about running Christmas lights. I'm sure there are instances where a few extra kilowatt hours make a big difference to folks, and we could probably map out true overall cost.... (I've seen a few try, but the analysis is always missing something, depending on the lighting system being argued for). With very few exceptions, I would postulate that the difference in electricity use between 250w halides and and "equal" amount of LEDs is negligible.

 

[Helfish]

I hope that nobody has 91 inside of their home... ouch.

Last summer in Finland was very hot, unusually hot. Generally speaking the apartments (at least the older ones) are designed to keep the heat inside and not to cool. Most of the apartments do not have AC, however these are gaining popularity in the newer buildings. Last summer there were days when it seriously was 91F inside my flat and I can say it was almost like sauna Fortunately the summer months are usually from June to August and the rest of the year is more cooler. I have been leaning towards led's as I believe then I could manage the heat better during summer months. However, there is really good offer from the Giesemann Infinity. Guess I just need to make some decisions...

 

[Jay Norris]

Here in Colorado, we do get some 100 degree days, but with 50s at night, the temp inside of the house never gets much above 76 or maybe 78. We run the attic fan all night with the windows open and then shut it off during the day and let the 60 degree interior air warm up to about 75 until it gets dark. We have AC, but if I can avoid using it, then that helps my pocket and carbon emissions - I bought solar panels for the reefs and my hot tub. I hope that nobody has 91 inside of their home... ouch.

You can evaporative cool below ambient air, but this is not all that efficient nor reliable. Ice Probe nano coolers kinda do this, but with more efficiency.

BTW - here is three months of growth for a Fox Flame. Fox Flame is a fast grower. I will try and get a recent pic soon... this thing is getting big:

Nice looking Acro.

 

[jda]

Helfish - if your place is going to get to 91, then your tank will overheat with any type of lighting without a chiller.

 

[MnFish1]

Helfish - if your place is going to get to 91, then your tank will overheat with any type of lighting without a chiller.

I've heard differing opinions about whether MH lighting heats the water. Does it - or does it not? (people on this thread have said they don't need to use their heaters as much - so it also saves energy that way). If you live in a place where it gets to be 80 every day - which is better MH or LED - without a chiller? Is MH better or equivalent to LED (light and coral wise) - if its equivalent - I wouldn't buy a chiller to run a light. If its better - thats a different story. If its only slightly better - I'm not sure I would buy a chiller either.

 

[Jacked Reefer]

I've heard differing opinions about whether MH lighting heats the water. Does it - or does it not? (people on this thread have said they don't need to use their heaters as much - so it also saves energy that way). If you live in a place where it gets to be 80 every day - which is better MH or LED - without a chiller? Is MH better or equivalent to LED (light and coral wise) - if its equivalent - I wouldn't buy a chiller to run a light. If its better - thats a different story. If its only slightly better - I'm not sure I would buy a chiller either.

My metal halide helps my 10 gallon. I used to have to run over 150w or heating to keep it at 77. Now it stays at my target temp of 80 with only 50 watts of heaters and 150w of metal halide. But if you have a larger volume it would only have a minimal temperature effect.

 

[MTBake]

We get into the 90s in the summer where I live. Running the ac with a small clip on fan is all I need. Even then, the heaters kick on occasionally during the day when it's that hot outside.

Last summer, my Inkbird went haywire and quit reading the tank temp correctly. I felt the tank temp and it felt cold to me. Checked the thermometer and it was 70. That was with a 250w halide and kessil 360we over a 40 breeder.

Metal halide does get hot. But can easily be controlled, imo.

 

[naterealbig]

I've heard differing opinions about whether MH lighting heats the water. Does it - or does it not? (people on this thread have said they don't need to use their heaters as much - so it also saves energy that way). If you live in a place where it gets to be 80 every day - which is better MH or LED - without a chiller? Is MH better or equivalent to LED (light and coral wise) - if its equivalent - I wouldn't buy a chiller to run a light. If its better - thats a different story. If its only slightly better - I'm not sure I would buy a chiller either.

It really depends on how close you have them to the water. They definitely radiate heat, I can feel it, and it has to be managed. My argument is that it is easy. If I ran my fixture 3-4 inches above the water line and kept my apt at 80, I would need to increase my active cooling. There's a couple things I do which mitigate it though. First I'm running the fixture about 13" above the tank rim. I'm also keeping my apartment mid seventies for temp. Something else I do is I stagger the halides being on. First one on, then both on, then first one off, then second one off.

I don't think it's a function of just climate, but a combination of climate, ambient living space temp you prefer, and cost of electricity combined. For instance, any potential extra cost of running halides would be offset if you lived in a cooler climate and preferred it cooler inside your home. You could run your halides closer to the water, which means you are also saving on heater electricity.

It gets > 100F between March - Oct here, and my AC cranks when I'm home. I run the majority of my halide photoperiod while I'm home, and cooling the apartment anyway. I let it warm up in the apt while I'm at work, and even then, the aquarium heater runs intermittently.

LEDs can produce great results, and if you like yours and are getting the results you want, I wouldn't switch. For me, the halide is brighter to my eyes, and this is something I appreciate. I also like the shimmer better, I think you can use fewer bulbs for better blanket coverage, and don't have to buy anything extra to make sure the individual LEDs blend well. I also love the daylight look, with noticeable pop, which is easy for me to achieve with the combo I'm running.

For folks that haven't been as successful with LEDs as they would like, I think MH (or t5, or both) is an excellent, tried and true option that is very easy to implement, and won't break the bank.

 

[MnFish1]

It really depends on how close you have them to the water. They definitely radiate heat, I can feel it, and it has to be managed. My argument is that it is easy. If I ran my fixture 3-4 inches above the water line and kept my apt at 80, I would need to increase my active cooling. There's a couple things I do which mitigate it though. First I'm running the fixture about 13" above the tank rim. I'm also keeping my apartment mid seventies for temp. Something else I do is I stagger the halides being on. First one on, then both on, then first one off, then second one off.

I don't think it's a function of just climate, but a combination of climate, ambient living space temp you prefer, and cost of electricity combined. For instance, any potential extra cost of running halides would be offset if you lived in a cooler climate and preferred it cooler inside your home. You could run your halides closer to the water, which means you are also saving on heater electricity.

It gets > 100F between March - Oct here, and my AC cranks when I'm home. I run the majority of my halide photoperiod while I'm home, and cooling the apartment anyway. I let it warm up in the apt while I'm at work, and even then, the aquarium heater runs intermittently.

LEDs can produce great results, and if you like yours and are getting the results you want, I wouldn't switch. For me, the halide is brighter to my eyes, and this is something I appreciate. I also like the shimmer better, I think you can use fewer bulbs for better blanket coverage, and don't have to buy anything extra to make sure the individual LEDs blend well. I also love the daylight look, with noticeable pop, which is easy for me to achieve with the combo I'm running.

For folks that haven't been as successful with LEDs as they would like, I think MH (or t5, or both) is an excellent, tried and true option that is very easy to implement, and won't break the bank.

THANKS nice summary

 

[A. grandis]

I've heard differing opinions about whether MH lighting heats the water. Does it - or does it not? (people on this thread have said they don't need to use their heaters as much - so it also saves energy that way). If you live in a place where it gets to be 80 every day - which is better MH or LED - without a chiller? Is MH better or equivalent to LED (light and coral wise) - if its equivalent - I wouldn't buy a chiller to run a light. If its better - thats a different story. If its only slightly better - I'm not sure I would buy a chiller either.

Does it - or does it not?
It will heat up your water depending on the wattage of the bulbs and the quantity of gallons of the system. And that is related to the temperature you want to keep the system, how many hours the lights will be on, and the ambient temperature where the system is. Many variables!!
Generally speaking if you put a good fan, like the Vornado between the halide fixture and the water surface, you will be cutting the heat transfer big time and therefore there is no worries about any heating issues when you choose the right halide for your system.

Is MH better or equivalent to LED
Depends on what "better" means to you. Depends also what halides and what LEDs for many, because that will give you also different results in each case for different systems. What's important to you?
Many have their mind set to the LEDs and to what they've learned and saw at stores nowadays. You don't see metal halides in most stores. So many here won't really have an idea of what to expect from halides, or compare, and also think that what they see at the stores under LEDs are "great". Which is an opinion that I believe we all should respect.
The answer is basically depends on what you want to achieve.
I've been learning here that opinions vary and what's good for me is totally unacceptable to others.

If its better - thats a different story.
IMO and IME halides are the very best you can offer to get the best results with growth and color. Chiller will take care of the extreme hot days and the fan between the fixture and water surface will greatly cut the heat for the most part.
Halides will give you the quality that no other light can. This is a fact and the results are very real and beautiful!
Sorry for getting into the conversation.
I'm sure jda will add to what I've said.
Good thread!
My $.02.

 

[Bronx19]

There is no question MH will heat your water, mine goes up 1.5C from lights on.

 

[naterealbig]

Does it - or does it not?
It will heat up your water depending on the wattage of the bulbs and the quantity of gallons of the system. And that is related to the temperature you want to keep the system, how many hours the lights will be on, and the ambient temperature where the system is. Many variables!!
Generally speaking if you put a good fan, like the Vornado between the halide fixture and the water surface, you will be cutting the heat transfer big time and therefore there is no worries about any heating issues when you choose the right halide for your system.

Is MH better or equivalent to LED
Depends on what "better" means to you. Depends also what halides and what LEDs for many, because that will give you also different results in each case for different systems. What's important to you?
Many have their mind set to the LEDs and to what they've learned and saw at stores nowadays. You don't see metal halides in most stores. So many here won't really have an idea of what to expect from halides, or compare, and also think that what they see at the stores under LEDs are "great". Which is an opinion that I believe we all should respect.
The answer is basically depends on what you want to achieve.
I've been learning here that opinions vary and what's good for me is totally unacceptable to others.

If its better - thats a different story.
IMO and IME halides are the very best you can offer to get the best results with growth and color. Chiller will take care of the extreme hot days and the fan between the fixture and water surface will greatly cut the heat for the most part.
Halides will give you the quality that no other light can. This is a fact and the results are very real and beautiful!
Sorry for getting into the conversation.
I'm sure jda will add to what I've said.
Good thread!
My $.02.

Very well said Grandis!

 

[biecacka]

No heaters on my 240 gallon halide tank.
In the summer AC keeps the tank around 78.

Columbus Ohio and it’s crazy weather.

JDA what bulbs are you running

Corey

 

[MnFish1]

IMO and IME halides are the very best you can offer to get the best results with growth and color. Chiller will take care of the extreme hot days and the fan between the fixture and water surface will greatly cut the heat for the most part.
Halides will give you the quality that no other light can. This is a fact and the results are very real and beautiful!
Sorry for getting into the conversation.
I'm sure jda will add to what I've said.
Good thread!
My $.02.

Thanks - great summary. Glad you got into the conversation. It just seems to me that color is so 'subjective' - I've already given my somewhat thumbs down opinion on the fluorescent blue color some like (and great - I just dont happen to care for it - probably because I had MH lights early on). I need to google MH fixtures lol maybe I'll find one I like lol

 

[A. grandis]

Thanks - great summary. Glad you got into the conversation. It just seems to me that color is so 'subjective' - I've already given my somewhat thumbs down opinion on the fluorescent blue color some like (and great - I just dont happen to care for it - probably because I had MH lights early on). I need to google MH fixtures lol maybe I'll find one I like lol

Maybe I can help you some:
The Spectra is silent and very nice looking fixture with superb light distribution:
https://www.coralvue.com/giesemann-spectra-se-metal-halide-t5-fixture-iridium
https://www.giesemann.us/SPECTRA.html
The Cebu is another great fixture and it has fans, so not a silent option, but it's an amazing fixture as well.
Best customer service I know! Hamilton has excellent quality bulbs and ballasts as well.
https://hamiltontechnology.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=17_74_77
Some times you can find good used old fixtures on EBay or in forums. Check your local reef club!
Search what bulb pleases you the most and find the right ballast for that bulb. That makes a difference.
Good luck!