Raising Alkalinity with baking soda questions

[mcarroll]

I already have the JBJ ATO. Am I able to just add the vinegar to my top off bucket? Adding vinegar is no problem. I will check out that article.

You can still hook up a reactor to an ATO like that. Just takes the right pump for the reactor. The Tunze has an air line-sized in/out nipples. Higher flow is ideal, but I've made do with an Aqualifter before - it'll still work. The TLF is another reactor that works similarly, but has some moving parts. It might be easier to hook up cuz I think it has 1/2" in/out, but the zero-moving-parts of the Tunze makes it my preferred solution.

Without a reactor you'll wanna premix the vinegar and lime first before getting water involved - but you'll see that in the article too.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

You can still hook up a reactor to an ATO like that. Just takes the right pump for the reactor. The Tunze has an air line-sized in/out nipples. Higher flow is ideal, but I've made do with an Aqualifter before - it'll still work. The TLF is another reactor that works similarly, but has some moving parts. It might be easier to hook up cuz I think it has 1/2" in/out, but the zero-moving-parts of the Tunze makes it my preferred solution.

Without a reactor you'll wanna premix the vinegar and lime first before getting water involved - but you'll see that in the article too.

-Matt

I thought I read that you mainly want to mux viengar with you need to disolve more than 2 TSP per gallon. If I was using less, I wouldnt need to do vinegar, correct?

 

[reefwatcher]

Keep going very helpful also thought about dosing my tank .

 

[mcarroll]

I thought I read that you mainly want to mux viengar with you need to disolve more than 2 TSP per gallon. If I was using less, I wouldnt need to do vinegar, correct?

It's limited based on how much CO2 is dissolved in the water, which is hard to know for sure. There should be a safe level based on regular atmospheric CO2 levels, but I'm not positive on the number of teaspoons off hand. I will say that I f you don't want to use vinegar (the safe bet) right off the bat then 2 teaspoons sounds like a decent rule-of-thumb limit to use before vinegar becomes necessary.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Ya I'll probably start at 2tsp per gallon and go from there depending on tests and consumption.

 

[Ocho Cinco]

I already mixed my first batch or Kalk with 5 gallons or R/O water. I'm not liking doing that already. Mixing all the time and having it sit until I can use it will be a pain. I'm looking into getting the TLF Kalk Reactor. Any insight on how they work exactly? Do I just add Kalk to the reactor and the ATO mixes it with water? I'm gonna do some research on it now.

 

[Ocho Cinco]

My ATO kicked on maybe twice and my PH raised from 8.1 to 8.4. That's a little scary to me. I added 7 TSP to a 5 gallon bucket. Was that too much? I think I'm gonna stick with fresh water in my ATO for now, until I get the Reactor/figure out how much I need.

 

[mcarroll]

As you should be noticing pretty consistently, limewater is always dripped (i.e. added to the tank very slowly) for this very reason. To do this, you'll need a smaller pump (aqua lifter is about perfect) or a way to slow down the flow of your current pump.

Regardless of the above, you won't regret adding a reactor. In addition to the TLF, while you're doing research I'd suggest also considering the Tunze 5074 as well as building a DIY reactor. The Tunze is probably a bit pricier, but I like the simpler design. DIY is a pretty good option too, especially if budget is a sticking point.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

I've used the Aqualifter with my JBJ ATO in the past but it always seems to be way to slow. Sometimes the ATO will auto shut it off because it has been running too long (I think). Would having a reactor slow down how much is added? With the JBJ, I noticed when it turn on it will run a few seconds even after the light goes off.

 

[Ocho Cinco]

I got my TLF Kalk Reactor and have it running with my ATO and started with a half cup of Kalk that should be good for 2 weeks. My PH has gone up and I'm hoping it will stay stable now and not go up higher. Is there any way to control this?

 

[mcarroll]

The pH effects are minor if you are doing it right (not too fast) and the effect is mostly temporary.

The amount of CO2 in the air (combined with good aeration of tank water) is what provides the majority of control over your tank's pH.

So, however much CO2 is "consumed" by the limewater you are dosing (which causes the pH boost), it will very quickly (from minutes to hours) be replaced by CO2 from the air dissolving back into your water.

FWIW, if you're seeing any more significant pH effect than described here or your pH spikes to 8.5 or higher, then your ATO is running too fast and needs to be throttled back. (Or you need to dose lime with vinegar as previously mentioned.) Really, there's no reason your pH should spike over 8.3....I'd simply add vinegar to your reservoir (according to plan) if you find your pH higher.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

My PH currently is running aboud 8.4 during the day. I started with a half cup of kalk in the reactor which should last 2 weeks. If I add vinegar wont that also raise the amount or Kalk that is being added to my water? How do you turn back your ATO? If water is evaporating its going to add more, right?. Would adding an air pump to the fresh water help at all?

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Tested when I got home.

ALK:10
CA:450
PH 8.4

Alk has been raising by about 1 dkh per day. Obviously it is now too high. I disconnected the kalk reactor from my ato so I doesn't get higher. Does this just mean I added too much kalk? How can I still dose kalk with out my alk jumping so high?

 

[mcarroll]

pH
8.4 isn't too, too bad as long as it's fairly consistent there (small/no swings) and doesn't go higher than that.

Adding Vinegar?
If you decide to add vinegar to the regime, you are right that more lime will be able to dissolve than without it. You'll have to control how much you dose.

Unfortunately there's no "lime" entry in the Reef Chemistry Calculator so you'll have to get a little creative to figure out what a correct dose is. One idea is to use the "saturated limewater" option in the Calculator to calculate your dose, then back-figure the amount of lime using an estimate of 2 grams of lime per 1 liter of saturated solution.

For example:

• Say your tank would fall from 8 to 7 dKH in a week without supplementation.
• The Reef Chemistry Calculator says you'd have to dose .87 gallons of saturated limewater to maintain levels for that week. That's about 3.3 liters of saturated limewater.
• 2 grams * 3.3 liters is about 6 grams of lime.
• So you'd dissolve 6 grams of lime into the prescribed amount of vinegar and you're all set.

You can use this same method to figure the "correct" weekly load for your reactor - just use the vinegar in your ATO vat to let the reactor do the mixing instead of mixing it directly with the lime.

Throttling ATO Flow
If you decide to throttle back your pump - "how" depends somewhat on your ATO so you'll have to decide what works. Might be worth a call to the ATO manufacturer for a tip on what your best practice will be.

One idea is simply to add a valve to the reactor output to slow the flow to something like a drip.

Another is if you can control the amount of time the ATO runs, just make it run for the shortest time possible.

Adding Air
Aerating your reservoir will not help If you suspected low aeration in the tank (along with the limewater dosing) as causing the elevated pH, then there's be a good reason to add air in the tank. If you run a skimmer and have decent water flow, its doubtful you'll have to worry about this.

Alkalinity Level
Anything up to 11-12 dKH is fine if you're running a normal tank - which mostly implies no carbon dosing and normal tank pH (which you appear to have), which you have - so I wouldn't worry. Just let it come down to where you want it on its own.

As far tweaking the reactor output, similar to the method above used to calculate the amount of lime to use with vinegar (for moderating pH), you can also just back-compute the amount of lime to load to control your dosing amount without using vinegar.

In the example used above under "Adding Vinegar" you would measure out the same 6 grams of lime, but instead of mixing with vinegar, you'd just load it into your lime reactor and then you should be set for the week. Verify with testing, of course.

Hope this makes sense!

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Thanks! I think I want to avoid Vinegar for now unless needed to saturate more. Is there a way to figure out an amount to add to keep my ALK stable? I understand how to use the measure given on the reef calculator to increase my alk or ca. As of now I dont need to increase anyhing so pretty much I just have to disconnect the ATO from the reactor so no Kalk is being added. I dont want to keep doing this, plus it will make my parms fluctuate.

Should I let my ALK go down some and track how fast it decreases day over day so I can figure out how much to add?