Raising Alkalinity with baking soda questions

[Ocho Cinco]

My plan was to go to the expert instructions once I got my levels where they need to be. I'm probably better off just using the reef calculator and dividing the amount they give me into smaller doses to hit my goal amount. Dosed all 3 tonight. I will test and post results tomorrow night.

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Tested again today after about a week of dosing.

Current Levels:
KH: 9 (3.24 meg/L)
MAG: 1395
CA: 340

Levels look good other than calcium. I doseda few TSP last night but I didn't change my ppm reading at all. Tonight I am just dosing CA. I'm doing 5 TSP which according too the reef calculator is should raise it 30 ppm. (I entered my current number of 340 and 400 for my desired. It called for 10.2 TSP, so I dosed half).

 

[mcarroll]

Shoot for ~425 ppm Ca to match your current alk....420 ppm if you are actually targeting 3.0 meq/L alkalinity. Don't be surprised if you see alk drop after this adjustment.

-Matt

 

[AdamSabina]

I've been using baking soda for a couple month instead of soda ash. No big differences as of yet. Might be my probe swinging but my PH is 8.1 instead of 8.2 Also I'm using less calcium. Not sure why yet; coral growth, coralline growth, or lack or precipitation. We will see. 3 months now and counting.

 

[mcarroll]

Washing soda is entirely overrated in terms of necessity IMO. Makes me question the source where I suspect all of us read about it.

Unless your system is heavily pH compromised to begin with, I say using baking soda makes better sense as a first choice.

Any pH change from dosing it is both minute and transient. Certainly not worth wasting the energy to heat up the oven.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

About 420 sounds good. I'll shoot for that. Once I get it there what is the best wait to maintain these levels? I know I need to figure out my tanks consumption but it seems like when even I add one it will lower the other and vise versa.

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Current testing results:

1/31
KH: 9 (3.24 meg/L)
MAG: 1395
CA: 340

2/1
KH: 8.2
MAG: 1380
CA: 340

2/2
KH: 8.2
MAG: 1275 (added MAG on 2/1 after the 1380 reading)
CA: 380

Not sure why my MAG keeps changing. I thought this is usually the most stable of the 3? I will be adding the rest of my bottle today.

 

[mcarroll]

As I said...the numbers were pretty bad at the start.....balanced, but bad. When you're testing and making adjustments starting this far behind, it's not unusual for you to see the numbers for what you aren't adjusting to drop. In your case, (if you had tested before and after to be able to notice) dosing alk by itself almost surely caused Ca or Mg (or both) numbers to drop.

For this reason, once you get all the major adjustments done and all three numbers are close, you'll typically want to run one last battery of tests and make one more fine adjustment to each parameter if needed.

I would dose at least 50% of your calculated dose of Ca and Mg to make better progress and stabilize your water a little better. If you're dripping them (not dumping them in) into an area with great flow you'd be pretty safe doing >50% if you want...but I wouldn't try to do a whole calculated dose. Reserve the percentage you don't dose.....retest....and then dose the rest (or a little more or less, as the new test dictates).

Wait a few hours and test again if you want a nice, hard benchmark to start calculating your daily consumption. When you do the later tests, try hard to perform them all at the same time of day, 24 hours later, as the first test.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

I have been dosing for all three. They have been raising but not consistently. I tested again tonight after dosing for MAG (17tsp) and Ca (6 tsp) on Sunday. Here are my current numbers:

KH: 7
CA: 340 (not sure how that went down after dosing?)
MAG: 1410

I dosed 7 TSP of CA and 2 TSP for KH after I tested.

Once I get these numbers where I want them and consistent I'm looking for a long term plan. Something easier than mixing everyday. What do you all think of a Kalkwasser reactor for maintaining CA and KH?

 

[mcarroll]

Well, the simple answer may just be: Don't mix every day - be lazy like me!

Mix up a gallon of solution at a time. This gets me by for days to weeks at a time - maybe longer for you if your colonies are fewer or smaller. You can always mix in 5 gallon batches if you're going through it a lot faster. (I used to do this.)

This article is the de facto reference standard for how to mix your two-part as well as how to dose it. Make sure you completely grok these instructions:
An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com


All that said about two-part, a kalk (lime) reactor is a good idea IMO. I do both. A lime reactor is also a great way to dose vinegar....or maybe it's more correct to say that vinegar is a great way to dose lime. I dunno, but they go great together!

There's a great ongoing thread about limewater here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/re...asser-%96-feeding-your-tank-what-desires.html

For more on limewater as well as combining it with vinegar, check out one of my all time favorite links:
kalkwasser - In Depth

Hope this helps!

-Matt

 

[mcarroll]

I have been dosing for all three. They have been raising but not consistently. I tested again tonight after dosing for MAG (17tsp) and Ca (6 tsp) on Sunday. Here are my current numbers:

KH: 7
CA: 340 (not sure how that went down after dosing?)
MAG: 1410

I dosed 7 TSP of CA and 2 TSP for KH after I tested.

Check out all those links I just posted. Make sure you are mixing and dosing exactly like the "Improved Recipe..." article spells out. Make sure all ingredients are mixed and dosed separately. If you have to use the same drip-doser for all three, for example, make **** sure it's well-rinsed between sessions.

Looks like your Mag is correct and you can stop dosing that for now.

Any chance your Ca and alkalinity test kits are expired? Regardless I would get a second opinion on your Ca and alk numbers at the LFS or friend's house before dosing a lot more. The numbers will slide around a little, but your calcium is back to square one where you started after a full dose. If you're doing everything right (see above) this makes no sense.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Thanks for the articles, I will start reading into those. I'd like to get a Kalk reactor to go with my ATO. Do you think a controller to monitor PH and shut off the reactor if levels get too high is a must?

How do you know how much to premix in a gallon of 5 gallons?

I had my ALK tested at my LFS when the reading was initially too high and the tests came back the same. I will have them test CA next to make sure that test isn't jacked up.

 

[mcarroll]

Very little lime will dissolve in water - about 6-7 grams per gallon I think. 30 grams or so of lime should saturate a 5 gallon bucket just fine. I usually load a few "buckets worth" at a time into my Tunze 5074 so I don't have to refill it every time I refill the ATO reservoir....do what works for you/follow the instructions that come with the reactor.

No pH monitoring required when you do it this way - the ATO is the control. If you want to watch pH "just cuz", you still can. If you mix with vinegar - which really is a pretty good idea - there won't be much/anything to watch though.

Interested to hear back on the Ca re-test!

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Very little lime will dissolve in water - about 6-7 grams per gallon I think. 30 grams or so of lime should saturate a 5 gallon bucket just fine. I usually load a few "buckets worth" at a time into my Tunze 5074 so I don't have to refill it every time I refill the ATO reservoir....do what works for you/follow the instructions that come with the reactor.

No pH monitoring required when you do it this way - the ATO is the control. If you want to watch pH "just cuz", you still can. If you mix with vinegar - which really is a pretty good idea - there won't be much/anything to watch though.

Interested to hear back on the Ca re-test!

-Matt

Ya I did read that about very little lime dissolving but I didnt know you ment you were talking about lime. I thought u were talking about other supplements, like Seachem. I do have a PH monitor so I can easily check. What does mixing with Vinegar do and how much do you dose?

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Ok so I got all 3 parameters tested at my LFS. I tested before I left as well.

My test:
KH: 6
CA: 440
MG: 1500

LFS Test:
KH: 7
CA: 500+
MG: 1500+

Seems like my CA test maybe off. I might invest in a new Salifert test.

 

[mcarroll]

Good to know! I heartily recommend Salifert for testing Ca, Mg and alk.

I wouldn't do more than maintain your 7 alk until Ca and Mg come back into test kit-range. Daily water changes can be used if you want to rush it, but there should be no need.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

Ya I wont be doing those to. I'm doing a small w/c today and looking into picking up some Kalk to keep CA and KH stable.

Do you recommend a reactor or just adding it to my ATO bucket?

 

[mcarroll]

Either can work, but if you choose not to do a reactor and not to combine with vinegar - which both make lime much more user-friendly - make sure you read that Kalkwasser article I linked and understand the ins and outs of mixing/using "raw" kalkwasser.

It's not that difficult, but kalk can be a real pain if you don't do it right.

FWIW, my preference is the Tunze 5074 reactor. You can do a DIY install like I have, or for the best experience combine it with one of the Tunze ATO's. Their Calcium Kit 68 has all the pieces you need in one.

-Matt

 

[Ocho Cinco]

I already have the JBJ ATO. Am I able to just add the vinegar to my top off bucket? Adding vinegar is no problem. I will check out that article.

 

[Zacco]

I been using B-Ionic 2-part calcium and alkalinity for years with great results. As for magnesium, Kent Tech M magnesium. Use Reef Chemistry Calculator to help yourself out. You can find it online. Adding just Alk will decrease your calcium levels. Remember. Don't dose all at once. Slowly bring levels up.