Red Sea Fail, very harsh!! But truthful IMO.

[littlefoxx]

Yes, typically it’s that front panel that fails. Even if I never see another Red Sea tank fail, that floating panel is absolutely not a design I can ever get behind.

Yeah I never noticed until I was looking for it!

 

[marinesnow]

Check out SCA aquariums. They do custom sizes, have prefab “PNP” systems and their stands are solid wood.

I'm loving mine. I bought one after knowing many reefers with them. It's built a like a tank-- no pun intended. And it's half the cost...!

 

[jft]

At this point buying Red Sea is like Russian Roulette LOL

 

[MnFish1]

14 years starting from retail employee, management, then purchasing for one of the largest stores in Canada, but hey, I guess listening to your service guy made more sense

Don't get me wrong, I loved customers like you. Loyal to a fault, willing to pay for brand.

You must not have been paying attention - I just got Rid of one of my Redsea tanks. And in part it was due to a potential problems. 200 gallons of freshwater does less a lot less potential damage than 200 gallons of salt. However I didn't do it just because of Redsea. I still have the 8 year old 200 gallon reefer XXL. no problems. In fact - the majority of people have no issues with RedSea tanks - HOWEVER - to me the failure rate is more than acceptable for me. I don't have a 'service guy' - I am talking to one of the biggest aquarists in the US. So I think we kind of agree. However - there is (to my understanding) - no issues with the new G2 tanks. (and I've said the fact that they made changes - speaks for itself - there was a problem

 

[MnFish1]

You've clearly never run a business with that attitude. And if you have, you wouldn't have lasted long. It's all about customer relationships. Good word of mouth. Google reviews. Returning customers.

If you really think that your view represents how businesses are run, I truly feel bad for you.

Correct - I was not going to comment on his - but I will now - the implication was that if he was able to sell clients a substandard brand - he was happy to do so. Ridiculous - and seems to lower credibility

 

[MnFish1]

Don't get me wrong, I loved customers like you. Loyal to a fault, willing to pay for brand.

So - you would sell 'poor equipment' - your implication - to unwitting idiots? Wow - your morals seem suspect.

 

[MnFish1]

Sometimes, if you criticize something expensive someone bought, that becomes a personal attack on them. Because you are insinuating that they chose wrong, that they are a bad judge. Also why victims of scammers often dig in deeper before they let you help them, not that I am saying RS are scammers, but same effect.

Telling people that what they thought was luxury is a faulty mass product hurts.

Except - 99 percent of RedSea owners have no problems. LOL. They are insulted because they think the people that equate their situation to another person are using faulty logic.

 

[MnFish1]

At this point buying Red Sea is like Russian Roulette LOL

Russian roulette would be 1/6 failure - instead - as far as I know its 1/100

 

[C4ctus99]

I

I'm just not clear on the level of risk of this design. How much downward pressure is happening at a wall? I think the vast majority of force is pushing straight out. You could add some sort of stand to support that ~1/2" edge, but is it really even doing much at that point?

If these RS tanks weren't failing like this so frequently, I'm not sure we'd be worried about it at all.

Did the math and I think it’s only a couple of pounds at an -5 degree angle or something. Still added stress and not certain how the bonding of silicone works with sheer strength verses tensile strength. I.e. the weight of the panel pushing straight down (sheer strength) verses the weight of the water pushing out (tensile?)

Water pressure at bottom would be roughly 750lbs on a RSR 350 (21”x47” front panel)
Wright of panel 40-45lbs (12mm tempered glass?)
Vectors are
-straight down 45lbs
-straight out 750lbs
a^2+b^2=c^2
45^2+750^2=~752^2

As for the angle of the pressure vector it should be
ArcTan(Opp/Adj)
Which comes out to -5 degrees(?)

Doing this with my phone calculator so may be a little off…
45lbs is only 6% of 750 lbs, so it makes sense to me

 

[C4ctus99]

Except - 99 percent of RedSea owners have no problems. LOL. They are insulted because they think the people that equate their situation to another person are using faulty logic.

You’re currently at 1/30 for failures in the poll. Still way better than 1/6 though

 

[Northern Flicker]

So - you would sell 'poor equipment' - your implication - to unwitting idiots? Wow - your morals seem suspect.

The king of strawmen arguments, ladies and gents!

 

[C4ctus99]

The king of strawmen arguments, ladies and gents!

Is that the fallacy where they attack moral character to detract from the actual arguments being made or a different one?

 

[BeanAnimal]

The answer is - there are 2 million saltwater tanks world-wide and 800,000 in the US. According to 3 LFS here - the majority of tanks sold (approximately 70%) are RedSea tanks. It is estimated that it's a very small percentage of tanks fail, and if you search the site, you'll see examples of multiple brands with some failures. I believe RedSea has addressed the issues in the new versions of the tanks. Thats why people keep buying them (which is the question you asked).

I continue to disagree with your statistical argument.

800K aquariums in us. Subtract all other brands and sizes that RS does not sell. Subtract all tanks made before circa 2008. Subtract all RS models that do not keep popping up in these threads. comsider maybe your LFS sells RS but others do not. We are talking RS tanks sales that fit the failure profile in the thousands, at best low tens, not hundreds of thousands. Apply the reported failure rates. Apply the logic that the “forum” posting frequency is a literal fraction of what it was between the late 90s through 2017 or so and in those ~20 years tank failure threads were a rarity for ANY brand. There are hundreds of thousands of All-Glass, Oceanaic, Top-Fin, Marinelamd etc. tanks out there. Where are the piles of failure threads? The reported failure rate of RS tanks is obscene when reality is considered. The fact that they redesigned/retrofitted the models in question speaks volumes.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

Without doing a Search, I’m seeing post on YouTube about Red Sea Tank Failures. I saw a Fellow Hobbyist Red Sea Aquarium, Beautiful Aquarium, but I thought it was Crazy the Front Glass overhung the stand, with no support.

 

[Northern Flicker]

The fact that they redesigned/retrofitted the models in question speaks volumes.

I brought this up as well. If they released G2 with no major changes, then that would cast some doubt on how serious and widespread this is, and the effect it's having on their bottom line.

Some posters are enjoying car anoalogies. Imagine you bought a new Honda CRV, then you started hearing about CRVs having airbag issues, and a year later, they release the same CRV but market an improved airbag system with much better components, more checks and balances, etc. I feel like you might wonder if your airbag was problematic.

 

[Perry]

I have seen numerous RS tanks FS lately, but maybe it's just a coincidence... hmmm

 

[MnFish1]

I continue to disagree with your statistical argument.

800K aquariums in us. Subtract all other brands and sizes that RS does not sell. Subtract all tanks made before circa 2008. Subtract all RS models that do not keep popping up in these threads. comsider maybe your LFS sells RS but others do not. We are talking RS tanks sales that fit the failure profile in the thousands, at best low tens, not hundreds of thousands. Apply the reported failure rates. Apply the logic that the “forum” posting frequency is a literal fraction of what it was between the late 90s through 2017 or so and in those ~20 years tank failure threads were a rarity for ANY brand. There are hundreds of thousands of All-Glass, Oceanaic, Top-Fin, Marinelamd etc. tanks out there. Where are the piles of failure threads? The reported failure rate of RS tanks is obscene when reality is considered. The fact that they redesigned/retrofitted the models in question speaks volumes.

OK all good

 

[MnFish1]

Is that the fallacy where they attack moral character to detract from the actual arguments being made or a different one?

No - a straw man argument is " A straw man argument is the logical fallacy of distorting an opposing position into an extreme version of itself and then arguing against that ..." - which I have not done. But - good to remind everyone on both sides.

 

[MnFish1]

I

Did the math and I think it’s only a couple of pounds at an -5 degree angle or something. Still added stress and not certain how the bonding of silicone works with sheer strength verses tensile strength. I.e. the weight of the panel pushing straight down (sheer strength) verses the weight of the water pushing out (tensile?)

Water pressure at bottom would be roughly 750lbs on a RSR 350 (21”x47” front panel)
Wright of panel 40-45lbs (12mm tempered glass?)
Vectors are
-straight down 45lbs
-straight out 750lbs
a^2+b^2=c^2
45^2+750^2=~752^2

As for the angle of the pressure vector it should be
ArcTan(Opp/Adj)
Which comes out to -5 degrees(?)

Doing this with my phone calculator so may be a little off…
45lbs is only 6% of 750 lbs, so it makes sense to me

Without the math - which I'm not sure is correct (or incorrect) - why not just call BRS - and ask why they continue to sell RedSea tanks - and what percentage of failures they see? After all most of the people here seem to think that BRS is at least one of the authorities. Let's quit guessing based on individual tank problems - which might be related to stands, tanks, etc etc. I don't disagree with you - but I also don't care

 

[MnFish1]

The king of strawmen arguments, ladies and gents!

Let's pretend I said - no one should drive a car - because the fatality rate of a Model T was so much higher. Thats what's being done here. Kind of like the attacks on the APEX - when they had multiple problems at first - due to a firmware issue. This has become a somewhat silly, non-relevant discussion - so it's not a straw man argument. I provided the definition for you.