Red Sea Fail, very harsh!! But truthful IMO.

[elysics]

Could that be because they have a strong profit margin on Red Sea product?

The thing I can’t wrap my head around is that people pay a crazy amount for these luxury tanks, then they still defend the company when they have a serious defect. Why? The company isn’t doing anything to help people either, other than replacing the tank at cost plus freight. The tank is a fraction of the penalty the user faces in terms of flooring, livestock, drywall replacement, possible insurance premium issues.

Sometimes, if you criticize something expensive someone bought, that becomes a personal attack on them. Because you are insinuating that they chose wrong, that they are a bad judge. Also why victims of scammers often dig in deeper before they let you help them, not that I am saying RS are scammers, but same effect.

Telling people that what they thought was luxury is a faulty mass product hurts.

 

[ErikVR]

It's funny that on all different kinds of forums, there are threads like this. Apple vs Samsung, windows vs Linux, Porsche vs Ferrari. People seem more interested in burning someone else down for their choice rather than writing about the brand they love. Criticizing me for saying my tank hasn't failed yet... And then trying to call me a fanboy whos spending too much money on the wrong thing? Can you really not see what you're doing there?

Anyway, I enjoy reading topics like this on forums. No matter the actual subject

 

[CrunchyBananas]

So looking at my max 260 the front glass panel isnt supported by the stand at all, and the back of the tank is all the way to the edge. I see what people are talking about. For those who had a seam burst was it the front panel?? Im looking at the silicone and it does look like it is supporting the whole glass weight of that front paine. Thats scary as hell!

Yes, typically it’s that front panel that fails. Even if I never see another Red Sea tank fail, that floating panel is absolutely not a design I can ever get behind.

 

[GlassMunky]

Actually - I said it - I think once that 70 percent of tanks sold were redsea. And then I think I clarified it by saying RedSea represents 70% of the tanks this company services (i.e. the company I use). In the industry - there is not shortage of people recommending redsea - as far as I know. Do you know something different?.

You keep changing what you say based on others responses
But keep trying to pretend we can’t see you doing it.

 

[UtahReefer]

It's a stretch to say "no more products from redsea" imo. Their tanks, although beautiful, are garbage. There are still plenty of stuff they sell which is amazing, such as the PO4 testkit. That one is actually better than the Salifert one.

They great thing about this hobby is that everyone can have their preferences. I know there are some products from Red Sea that are good. My personal preference is just not to do any business with them again due to my personal experiences. I think everyone is entitled to that in regards to any product or company they may have had less than desirable experiences with.

 

[C4ctus99]

PS - no you're wrong - anyone in the saltwater hobby has 'cash to burn'. You're saying - RedSea were not top sellers in your store - or in the area you worked - yet - you're saying that they are bad - with no experience? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding

I most certainly don’t have cash to burn… enough to stay in the hobby yes, but the most I’ve ever spent on a fish was like $60 and I have to go the budget way because I love this hobby but don’t have great cash flow right now

 

[C4ctus99]

I mostly won’t ever buy a Red Sea tank cause I think it’s a ridiculous price… I’ve bought 4 tanks in the last year and 3 have been Aqueon. The 75 that I got busted a seem, had a 10gallon I used for emergencies and on occasion, and 20L was my first and still have it. Just got a glass cages acrylic tank so hopefully I don’t have to worry about any blowouts at all

The acrylic is a little thinner than expected so hopefully it doesn’t bow any

 

[Homestarmy]

So, I'm new to this forum and to the hobby - I ordered my first tank last Thursday before I fully realized how big of an issue this is. My anxiety level naturally ramped when I started reading this thread, but I decided to do a little more research and came across some interesting data.

First, it appears that my model, the Reefer Peninsula 350 G2 is somewhat of a Flying Dutchman - I couldn't find much content on anyone who actually owns one. The closest my searches come is the Reefer 350 G2. I mean, I went to check out the ReefBeat app and the Peninsula 350 G2 wasn't listed, which strikes me as odd, but I digress.

The focus seems to be on glass thickness and there is still some disparity within the Red Sea ranks. I compared the Peninsula 350 G2 with the 350 G2 and the 425 G2 and while the longer 350 & 425 show front and bottom glass thickness of .47" and side thickness of .59", the Peninsula 350 has .59" thick glass in all three sections. The glass thickness for the Peninsula 500 G2 is also .59". That matches the Cade Reef S2/P 1200 & 1500 and beats the Waterbox Marine X Peninsula 3620 which checks in at .47".

I chose this particular model based on its location - one side is going to be partially obscured by a pole while the back is going to be 90% open to my desk. The Peninsula 350 G2 is the only non-custom model I found that would fit that niche. I personally feel better based on the glass specs but, I'm still concerned about this situation.

 

[CrunchyBananas]

So, I'm new to this forum and to the hobby - I ordered my first tank last Thursday before I fully realized how big of an issue this is. My anxiety level naturally ramped when I started reading this thread, but I decided to do a little more research and came across some interesting data.

First, it appears that my model, the Reefer Peninsula 350 G2 is somewhat of a Flying Dutchman - I couldn't find much content on anyone who actually owns one. The closest my searches come is the Reefer 350 G2. I mean, I went to check out the ReefBeat app and the Peninsula 350 G2 wasn't listed, which strikes me as odd, but I digress.

The focus seems to be on glass thickness and there is still some disparity within the Red Sea ranks. I compared the Peninsula 350 G2 with the 350 G2 and the 425 G2 and while the longer 350 & 425 show front and bottom glass thickness of .47" and side thickness of .59", the Peninsula 350 has .59" thick glass in all three sections. The glass thickness for the Peninsula 500 G2 is also .59". That matches the Cade Reef S2/P 1200 & 1500 and beats the Waterbox Marine X Peninsula 3620 which checks in at .47".

I chose this particular model based on its location - one side is going to be partially obscured by a pole while the back is going to be 90% open to my desk. The Peninsula 350 G2 is the only non-custom model I found that would fit that niche. I personally feel better based on the glass specs but, I'm still concerned about this situation.

Imo it’s all about the floating, unsupported panel that I don’t trust. I can’t quite tell, but if that model has the full tank on the stand, I wouldn’t worry.

 

[Icryhard]

It's funny that on all different kinds of forums, there are threads like this. Apple vs Samsung, windows vs Linux, Porsche vs Ferrari. People seem more interested in burning someone else down for their choice rather than writing about the brand they love. Criticizing me for saying my tank hasn't failed yet... And then trying to call me a fanboy whos spending too much money on the wrong thing? Can you really not see what you're doing there?

Anyway, I enjoy reading topics like this on forums. No matter the actual subject

People aren’t really bashing. RedSea, especially the older types, are simply prone to seams failing due to some serious design flaws. Sure, everything can be faulty and not a single company walks around with a 100% success rate, but RedSea simply stands out with its ratio of failing. So much, that for the price you’re paying (and the damages that can be done) it’s not worth risking. I myself bought a Juwel due to the amount of kit they use and the robust design. Can it fail? Yes, of course, are the chances reduced? Definitely. If I ever go rimless I’ll make sure to have someone whose ratio of failing isn’t this high.

You mentioned Linux vs windows, I hate both, but in UI design windows is way better, whereas Linux sucks. Linux its terminal dominates however in every way and form compared to windows. So yes, you weigh pros vs cons and that brings forward the choice you make.

 

[Cell]

Yes, typically it’s that front panel that fails. Even if I never see another Red Sea tank fail, that floating panel is absolutely not a design I can ever get behind.

I'm just not clear on the level of risk of this design. How much downward pressure is happening at a wall? I think the vast majority of force is pushing straight out. You could add some sort of stand to support that ~1/2" edge, but is it really even doing much at that point?

If these RS tanks weren't failing like this so frequently, I'm not sure we'd be worried about it at all.

 

[Bruttall]

So, I'm new to this forum and to the hobby - I ordered my first tank last Thursday before I fully realized how big of an issue this is. My anxiety level naturally ramped when I started reading this thread, but I decided to do a little more research and came across some interesting data.

First, it appears that my model, the Reefer Peninsula 350 G2 is somewhat of a Flying Dutchman - I couldn't find much content on anyone who actually owns one. The closest my searches come is the Reefer 350 G2. I mean, I went to check out the ReefBeat app and the Peninsula 350 G2 wasn't listed, which strikes me as odd, but I digress.

The focus seems to be on glass thickness and there is still some disparity within the Red Sea ranks. I compared the Peninsula 350 G2 with the 350 G2 and the 425 G2 and while the longer 350 & 425 show front and bottom glass thickness of .47" and side thickness of .59", the Peninsula 350 has .59" thick glass in all three sections. The glass thickness for the Peninsula 500 G2 is also .59". That matches the Cade Reef S2/P 1200 & 1500 and beats the Waterbox Marine X Peninsula 3620 which checks in at .47".

I chose this particular model based on its location - one side is going to be partially obscured by a pole while the back is going to be 90% open to my desk. The Peninsula 350 G2 is the only non-custom model I found that would fit that niche. I personally feel better based on the glass specs but, I'm still concerned about this situation.

Give you a base line for comparison, I have an old oceanic tank (30 years+), 300g 8 foot. The glass is 3/4inch thick bottom, 19.05mm, 5/8th front, back and sides, 15.875mm, 1/2inch thick, 12.7mm, 22inch wide center brace with 45 degree 1/2inch thick corner gussets. Top and Bottom frame also. Couple of pictures of the top of my tank. The durability built (over built) into these older tanks still impresses me.

I can assure you there is no flex in the glass on my tank, but with the advent of TEMPERED GLASS all these tank walls got really thin and thinner = more flex no matter how hard you temper it.

 

[CrunchyBananas]

I'm just not clear on the level of risk of this design. How much downward pressure is happening at a wall? I think the vast majority of force is pushing straight out. You could add some sort of stand to support that ~1/2" edge, but is it really even doing much at that point?

If these RS tanks weren't failing like this so frequently, I'm not sure we'd be worried about it at all.

The panels are quite heavy and the silicone has enough stress with the water pressure, I’d rather not add another variable of that silicone being expected to hold up that heavy panel against gravity.

Even if tanks were not failing, it’s just not a design I would never not worry about. I even own a rimless tank, but it’s planet aquariums made of 3/4” glass and has a fully supported frame on the bottom.

It’s just my personal opinion that it would be foolish to think a heavy, floating panel, held up purely by a bead of silicone, is as safe and long lasting as a fully supported tank with some sort of frame. My profession depends on me putting the most reliable displays in homes and businesses, so I err on the side of safety. I just can’t put a tank whose design I can’t get behind on some one else’s property.

 

[kynan]

So dude, you have a 30 yr old tank, been a member on R2R for less than 6 months, and you start a bashing thread on a tank you don’t own, and don’t have any experience with. Why there’s 7 pages of responses is beyond me. Smdh.

 

[Cell]

I'm no engineer or physicist. Does force in one direction get mitigated when much greater perpendicular force is applied to it?

 

[CrunchyBananas]

I'm no engineer or physicist. Does force in one direction get mitigated when much greater perpendicular force is applied to it?

I believe, in a simplified way, instead of pushing out in a perpendicular manner, the force would compound with the force gravity is putting on the panel, so the forces on the panel would be out and downward, in more of a 45 degree direction.

EDIT: we also have to keep
In mind that the water pressure is greatest on the bottom seam, it is the depth of the tank that determines the glass thickness and integrity necessitated, not the length or width. So the downward pressure may be even greater.

 

[Northern Flicker]

You've clearly never run a business with that attitude. And if you have, you wouldn't have lasted long. It's all about customer relationships. Good word of mouth. Google reviews. Returning customers.

If you really think that your view represents how businesses are run, I truly feel bad for you.

I just realized you are from NL; likely any market related disagreements we’ve had are pointless because NA and EU are very different. I wouldn’t doubt that a luxury product would have a larger market share in Europe where the household economics are very different then here.

 

[Northern Flicker]

So, I'm new to this forum and to the hobby - I ordered my first tank last Thursday before I fully realized how big of an issue this is. My anxiety level naturally ramped when I started reading this thread, but I decided to do a little more research and came across some interesting data.

First, it appears that my model, the Reefer Peninsula 350 G2 is somewhat of a Flying Dutchman - I couldn't find much content on anyone who actually owns one. The closest my searches come is the Reefer 350 G2. I mean, I went to check out the ReefBeat app and the Peninsula 350 G2 wasn't listed, which strikes me as odd, but I digress.

The focus seems to be on glass thickness and there is still some disparity within the Red Sea ranks. I compared the Peninsula 350 G2 with the 350 G2 and the 425 G2 and while the longer 350 & 425 show front and bottom glass thickness of .47" and side thickness of .59", the Peninsula 350 has .59" thick glass in all three sections. The glass thickness for the Peninsula 500 G2 is also .59". That matches the Cade Reef S2/P 1200 & 1500 and beats the Waterbox Marine X Peninsula 3620 which checks in at .47".

I chose this particular model based on its location - one side is going to be partially obscured by a pole while the back is going to be 90% open to my desk. The Peninsula 350 G2 is the only non-custom model I found that would fit that niche. I personally feel better based on the glass specs but, I'm still concerned about this situation.

I wouldn’t sweat the G2s. The anxiety is mainly around specific G1 tanks. I hadn’t heard of the Peninsula 350 so I took a quick look and it’s a nice setup with good viewing dimensions. Hope you love it!

 

[Homestarmy]

Thank! I am pretty jacked about diving into the hobby! Now I just have to wait patiently as pieces and parts slowly trickle in….

 

[Icryhard]

Exactly. I had a good laugh reading about all these 'huge' profit margins. We're talking peanuts here. There are no big margins on the retailers end. Most of them are happy to turns a slight profit each month.

Not everything is a conspiracy. Companies aren't evil. If a company is not publicly acknowledging an issue it's probably due to legal reasons. They're not looking to flood our living rooms on purpose. If they find a design flaw, they will do everything within reason to design the next product in a better way. It's simply not in their best interest to sell you poor products at a premium price.

Not true, at all. First of all, they do make huge margins of profit. A company isn't going to bother if the margin were to be close to each other. All that hassle isn't worth it for them. Companies aren't evil? I think you should check again. If they find a design flaw they'll do everything? Yeah, but the damage has already been done and they are apparently too tight to acknowledge this and compensate them whilst resolving the design flaw. It isn't in their interest? Of course it isn't, but selling it at a premium price is. Perfect example of all of this would be beats by dr dre. Sure, their newer versions are amazing, but pure statistically speaking the beats studio was a complete flop and the beats pro (which I personally love) is still statistically worse than other headphones which are half the price.

No one in their right mind is going to spend hours and hours and hours of their day, investing and taking HUGE risks in the hopes of making a couple of bucks. Maybe if it's a part-time gig they're doing, like my LFS. They too however are still making great profit.