Reef Hobby going down the drain

[Snookin]

The reefing hobby is in a bad position. Niche hobby that has gotten even more expensive. Black Friday sales were trash this year. Hobby keeps burning new people with bad info and marketing. Haven’t been on this site for a while and came back recently to trash. Forums are polluted with terrible takes and bad info only to be followed by bias info from homers of products who consider themselves “influencers”. Man, I feel bad for the new people that actually want to join this hobby and are misguided by the internet.

 

[Zeal]

Arent sales trash every year? I cant get over the 10% off an item that cost $300

 

[Snookin]

It’s not just the dry/live good sales. Spending $ is apart of the hobby, that’s understood. It’s the bad info and marketing of unnecessary products/livestock and procedures too. I think the hobby is broke.

 

[SVP]

The reefing hobby is in a bad position. Niche hobby that has gotten even more expensive. Black Friday sales were trash this year. Hobby keeps burning new people with bad info and marketing. Haven’t been on this site for a while and came back recently to trash. Forums are polluted with terrible takes and bad info only to be followed by bias info from homers of products who consider themselves “influencers”. Man, I feel bad for the new people that actually want to join this hobby and are misguided by the internet.

While I agree with most of your gripes. Like how expensive this hobby is starting to become. Bad info or just no info for people. People giving wrong or misguided advice. I see a lot of advice given without all the facts considered or even offered. first question should be parameters. But I see this far worse on fb page I admin on. someone says my torch looks like this. 20 people give 30 answers without a single person asking about water parameters or photo period length and intensity.

So that leads me into a question for you that my buddies and I have had many discussions about. You make valid points as to whats wrong, so if you love the hobby, how would you go about fixing some of these issues? What can we do besides complain about it to help our hobby? I understand that fighting the big businesses such as Ecotech or BRS would be a very large if not impossible task. I'm looking for more ideas of a grass roots type of movement.

 

[Curtis Rose]

I think to a degree your right. Everyone is pushing products saying this is the best so people buy it. The fundamentals are broke. I didn’t spend the most, I have a nice tank and it’s as simple as it can get. I don’t see it here like I see it on fb groups. I commonly see people running soo many things they may not need, rear chambers crammed with the lastest greatest this and that only to be told to run something different to Bandaid the problem that is caused by everything else. I never needed any of that I just learned how to take care of the animals through trial,error, and in-depth research I feel bad for a lot a people as it’s hard to wade through the garbage. I’m an information sponge when I read things it’s sticks if I’m learning something it sticks. But I see a lot of people that don’t learn that way get misled..it’s a bummer but there are good reefers out there esp here on r2r. And yes everything is over priced it’s sickening! Research can curb the cost tho everything can be had at a lower cost...might cost u some time reading and diy, trial and error. But that’s me, I’d rather understand everything in its complexity than have the best, cause someone told me it was.

 

[Mical]

The reefing hobby is in a bad position. Niche hobby that has gotten even more expensive. Black Friday sales were trash this year. Hobby keeps burning new people with bad info and marketing. Haven’t been on this site for a while and came back recently to trash. Forums are polluted with terrible takes and bad info only to be followed by bias info from homers of products who consider themselves “influencers”. Man, I feel bad for the new people that actually want to join this hobby and are misguided by the internet.

I agree with alot of your statement - but it's seems to be the norm across the "opinionette" not just reefing. As the internet is easily accessed by the masses, opinions get tossed out by everyone who feels compelled to give his/her ideas regardless if it has any based fact.

 

[Zeal]

I agree with alot of your statement - but it's seems to be the norm across the "opinionette" not just reefing. As the internet is easily accessed by the masses, opinions get tossed out by everyone who feels compelled to give his/her ideas regardless if it has any based fact.

I've found refuge in my local club. There's some good info on this forum here and there but there's so many opinions

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

This has been brought up before on several occasions. In my opinion, and this is coming from someone that 8 months ago knew diddly about saltwater/reefing, is that it's not so much a problem unique to this hobby, as much as it's a problem with the internet.

The great thing about the internet is that it gives access to an immense amount of information to anyone with the means to do so .... Which in this day and age is pretty much everyone. However, the other side of information sharing (internet) is that now, someone whom is completely alien to the subject matter (ie. Any newbie coming into the hobby) has a harder uphill battle to wade through the vast amounts of easily-accessible information/misinformation and separate oppinion/anecdotal evidence from fact. YouTube is probably the biggest offender as many "influencers" are being followed as experts, which by a large margin, they are not... At least most of them aren't.

At the end of the day, it falls on the individual user to do the research, read, learn, absorb, and apply some reasoning and not just blindly follow everything everyone says. And it falls on the community such as R2R to help make that happen with help from those whom I would consider true experts in the hobby (@Dana Riddle, @Randy Holmes-Farley, @Humblefish , @HotRocks and a few more than I'm forgetting).

Or maybe I'm just still too green around the ears and am completely wrong about this..... Lol, who knows... Do your research! ;Bookworm

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Hard to swallow when someone comes into your neighborhood and calls it a dump!

I’ll try my best to look at this thread, listen and learn in an effort to make R2R an even better community.

 

[LisaMarie]

Not to stir things up, but I completely disagree. I've been reefing for 20 years and it's one of the best times I've ever seen in the hobby. We have more choices than ever (at all price points), more freely available information and exchange of ideas, and technologies that were never previously imaginable!

Reefing can be done expensively or on a budget. (I've done both with equal success). It's no more expensive than many other hobbies (unless you want it to be). I was into model railroading for many years and it's the same thing. You can buy an $80 engine or an $8000 dollar engine. The choice is up to the hobbyist.

As for bad advice..... If you ask 10 people a question about anything you are bound to get 10 different answers. Some of those answers may be bad advice, but often it's just different ways of doing things. There is no "one" right way to reef. That is the value of a forum, people can ask advice and evaluate the answers they receive, along with their own research to find the solution that best fits their situation.

I don't always like the prices of equipment, but I am free to choose what I purchase or learn to DIY. These are businesses. They exist to make money. WE as consumers set the price by what we are willing to pay. It's no different than cars, cellphones, or clothing. There is no "reef equipment vendor conspiracy". They are just running businesses in a free market. They wouldn't exist if people weren't buying and happy with their purchases.

I don't understand calling R2R trash. Where else can you find hundreds of people willing to give their time to help others 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? I've been on other forums and there are NO other online communities that I have found that foster an open exchange of ideas (without the abuse and nonsense that takes place elsewhere) and free sharing of information. No community is perfect, but R2R is as close as I've found.

I'm sure I won't change your mind about any of your opinions, but I wanted to offer another viewpoint for those new to the hobby or contemplating entering it.

 

[braappn]

A beginner would be wise to focus on actual articles written by reputable "experts". Kind of like way back when books were the way to learn. The forums are great for someone who already has a clue what they are doing, but I can't imagine being a true beginner and trying to get started here. Too much bad info, conflicting info, and inexperienced opinions.

Steering beginners towards the "Articles" section of the site might be a good way to go. If a beginner were to spend many hours there before ever looking at the forums they would probably be much better off.

 

[Shinister]

My first sw tank was in 2006. There are definitely more options out there than when I first started this hobby and greater availability. Not only do you have a lot more reef supply vendors but you have amazon and ebay as great sources for reef supplies and hard to find chemicals. Pricing is high for some items but usually they're not a must-have item, just convenience. I hear what you're saying about bad advices but there's one very important fact thats unique to this hobby (cant think of any other hobbies). Every tank is different. You can have two people with the exact same setup and maintenance schedule and still have different outcomes. Whatever method or product may have worked for them and they are able to duplicate it but it may not be the same result on your tank. As with all information you get from the internet, it's ultimately up to you to make an informed decision on your tank.

 

[WVNed]

The reefing hobby is what it is.

The internet spreads garbage faster than good info while at the same time diluting good info and making it hard to find. Humans are turning into herd animals where it is more important to do what everyone else does instead of the right thing to do. If you can even find out what the right thing to do is.


Consider we have a thread on banning price gouging at the same time we have threads about everything being too expensive.

 

[Jon Fishman]

I will look forward to the attractive pricing of your items when you leave the hobby you have grown to hate.

 

[Tahoe61]

Then be part of the solution. Take your many years of experience and assist and offer guidance as appropriate.
Forums may no longer be your cup of tea, but they are valuable resource.

 

[lavoisier]

Hard to swallow when someone comes into your neighborhood and calls it a dump!

I’ll try my best to look at this thread, listen and learn in an effort to make R2R an even better community.

The OP's experience has certainly not been my experience. Our hobby is not one for quick answers. What we do is incredibly complex. It is on each of us to learn and share our experience with success and failure. ;Bookworm

This is a wonderful forum and I have benefited from it exceedingly. Thank you revhtree for all your work.

 

[Duffer]

I agree that the Black Friday sales were not too impressive this year and the hobby has gotten expensive. The part I don’t agree with is the knowledge I have learned on this foruM. Started this hobby 2 yrs ago and thanks to this place I learned a lot of valuable info where I would not be in a good place right now..

 

[mike550]

@Snookin as a newbie I’m sorry to see that you’re frustrated with the state of reefing. But I can share with you that I’m much more in the camp of @braappn @LisaMarie @AbjectMaelstroMl.

I use R2R to learn from folks who are willing to take the time to help. That’s huge to me, and so much better than simply relying upon the LFS as I did in the beginning. Candidly, had I known about R2R before starting my build with the LFS there are a number of things I would have done differently. Do I regret my decisions? Not really. I made the best decision I could based upon what I knew at the time.

And that’s my approach to this board. I consume the facts, listen to the opinions, and then make my own decision. Perfect examples are things like cycling the tank (fish or no fish) or to quarantine or not and then how to quarantine. There are many right answers. The best answer depends upon the reefer.

@revhtree — this Community isn‘t a dump! It’s full of many helpful people with great experience who are looking to help others. Of course these folks are also passionate and opinionated but that’s fine too! Ultimately, I think most folks are here to help and to share.

 

[Roosterjack]

I suppose if a reader takes the first advice they come across as gospel and runs with it they are bound to have trouble. If, however, the reader takes the time to read as many posts, reviews, articles, etc. as they can and then develops an educated conclusion they are likely to see success. Coming here and looking for a bulletproof recipe for success is a foolish expectation and I don’t have a lot of sympathy for those unwilling to put forth some effort to do the homework.

Every reef, and every fish/coral/invert is unique. As has been said several times above each of us will find our livestock reacts in its own way to the thousands of potential variables our reefs offer.

I personally find that those who approach any online community with a closed mind and a bad attitude are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Coming here, regardless of claimed experience in the hobby, with the sole purpose of being a downer and, frankly, a bit of a jerk, serves no purpose whatsoever.

My .02

Rooster

 

[Softhammer]

I have been playing with corals for quite some time and every few years, when things start to get ludicrous, like 1000 dollar torch corals everything crashes. The early 2000s had the same boom and bust cycles with acans. Then it’s mushrooms, formerly known as pests selling for 500 a pop. I don’t think there is anything wrong with this forum but it publicizes the extremes, or rather allows it. Nothing wrong with that. I’m finding all kinds of hyped up new “vendors”, that with a little digging turn out to be private frag slingers with a skill set for building web pages. It’s every time that this happens, the market, which is TINY gets over saturated and crash, acros are once again 20 bucks. It’s like the stock market. Do not buy into the hype, keep a diverse collection and yeah you may get 100 bucks for a frag or two. Don’t expect to retire off of it. I have had my Best Buy’s ever scooping up stuff from tank shutdowns. It’s coming, I called it when places like WWC open addition locations. Too much too quickly.