Reef Hobby going down the drain

[MnFish1]

The reefing hobby is in a bad position. Niche hobby that has gotten even more expensive. Black Friday sales were trash this year. Hobby keeps burning new people with bad info and marketing. Haven’t been on this site for a while and came back recently to trash. Forums are polluted with terrible takes and bad info only to be followed by bias info from homers of products who consider themselves “influencers”. Man, I feel bad for the new people that actually want to join this hobby and are misguided by the internet.

I think that most of the information here is excellent. A hobby can't 'burn' new people. Only new people can burn themselves by not doing research . What seems to happen here is that people jump in with both feet - then have problems - then come to ask 'how to fix them' - when in reality if they took the time to read many of the articles before they started the hobby they would probably do better.

The good thing about this site (IMO) and 'the internet' - is that if 'bad information' is put out there - it can be quickly disputed/dispelled by other readers. In the 'old days' - the only source one had was the LFS that sold you whatever you were buying - and there was a bit of misinformation then as well - no?

 

[stanleo]

Not so much bad feedback, but about once or twice a week I’ll get a DM saying my advice worked and their tank/coral is doing great again.
It’s really nice to get positive feedback, it makes all the hours we all spend helping each other even more worth it.

That is one thing that KIND OF bugs me about forums like this. People don't post in their questions threads what advise worked for them and what didn't so it's hard to figure out what works sometimes. That said, I just spent 15 minutes replying to questions I have posted that worked for me cause I am bad about that too and we should work on our issues with the forum first before we go criticizing it.

 

[WVNed]

My reef hobby goes down a drain I installed.

 

[Thales]

I also think some old timers hate forums like this one because knowledge is freely handed out. Instead of people having to learn(earn in their eyes) from their mistakes/triumphs we can learn from others. The learning curve has significantly gone down and this ****** off many who feel like they had to earn this same knowledge.

I think I disagree with this. I only know of a few people who tried to put their knowledge behind a paywall and that never really worked out. Even then, I don't think they did it to make people 'earn' it, rather to try to cut down the noise and drama. More modern monetization seems more about entertainment than information. As a long time hobbyist that was very active on forums for the first decade of my return to the hobby, I can tell you that experienced people stop posting on forums for many reasons - same conversations over and over, the same bad ideas refusing to die, people not doing their own reading, having to wade through lots of bad advice - but I don't know anyone that doesn't post because they mad about information being freely given.

 

[Mical]

Hard to swallow when someone comes into your neighborhood and calls it a dump!

I’ll try my best to look at this thread, listen and learn in an effort to make R2R an even better community.

Rev, I don't think OP was trashing R2R. I think (and I as I feel) the internet /opinionette is diluting info with opinions as many others have mentioned. It's not like in the old days where we as kids went to Encyclopedia Britannica expecting "the gospel" re: information to be correct. These days are challenging where we research, compare the info and have to make educated decisions. Personally R2R offers some of the best info out these without getting caught up in sales pitches & hype.

 

[Thales]

Rev, I don't think OP was trashing R2R. I think (and I as I feel) the internet /opinionette is diluting info with opinions as many others have mentioned. It's not like in the old days where we as kids went to Encyclopedia Britannica expecting "the gospel" re: information to be correct. These days are challenging where we research, compare the info and have to make educated decisions. Personally R2R offers some of the best info out these without getting caught up in sales pitches & hype.

It seems the badges are partly an attempt to deal with that issue. Are they, and do they help?

 

[NatD]

The reefing hobby is in a bad position. Niche hobby that has gotten even more expensive. Black Friday sales were trash this year. Hobby keeps burning new people with bad info and marketing. Haven’t been on this site for a while and came back recently to trash. Forums are polluted with terrible takes and bad info only to be followed by bias info from homers of products who consider themselves “influencers”. Man, I feel bad for the new people that actually want to join this hobby and are misguided by the internet.

I built my first salt tank in 2001 and reef in 2008. The information here, now, is far better and more accessible -- not to mention more kindly shared -- than at either of those times.

I would also like to add that whatever is going on in your day that has you irritated enough to come here and share what you did, I hope it looks up for you and you end up having a really nice day and weekend.

 

[hubcap]

I'm just getting into the hobby, and, I'm certainly not as well seasoned as most others that have posted.
That being said, my main obstacle isn't knowledge. It's the price tags that come with this endeavor.

Who knew glass, acrylic, silicone, and solvents could be so expensive? (Makes me think I should get into building tanks, but, don't want to go on a tangent.)

I don't know.....It's not going to stop me.
I turned off the news, and got rid of facebook for the same reasons. Opinionated garbage.
It's part of life in the digital age.

Is it a turn off? For sure.
Is it going to stop me?

Not a chance. Nothing worth having comes easy.

Just my $.02 adjusted for inflation.

-cap

 

[John3]

I think I disagree with this. I only know of a few people who tried to put their knowledge behind a paywall and that never really worked out. Even then, I don't think they did it to make people 'earn' it, rather to try to cut down the noise and drama. More modern monetization seems more about entertainment than information. As a long time hobbyist that was very active on forums for the first decade of my return to the hobby, I can tell you that experienced people stop posting on forums for many reasons - same conversations over and over, the same bad ideas refusing to die, people not doing their own reading, having to wade through lots of bad advice - but I don't know anyone that doesn't post because they mad about information being freely given.

I’ve come across many people outside the forums who have specifically stated to me what I posted. It’s the main reason they tell me why they don’t post(but they do lurk). It been said to me numerous times that reefing has been made so easy today by freely handed out info and nice equipment that all of the fun has been taken out of the hobby.

Funny thing is that my other hobby of fishing you get the same exact sentiment. It’s that old joke of walking uphill both ways to school, in the snow, barefoot...... The walk has just gotten too easy for some to bare.

 

[Humblefish]

I think I disagree with this. I only know of a few people who tried to put their knowledge behind a paywall and that never really worked out. Even then, I don't think they did it to make people 'earn' it, rather to try to cut down the noise and drama. More modern monetization seems more about entertainment than information. As a long time hobbyist that was very active on forums for the first decade of my return to the hobby, I can tell you that experienced people stop posting on forums for many reasons - same conversations over and over, the same bad ideas refusing to die, people not doing their own reading, having to wade through lots of bad advice - but I don't know anyone that doesn't post because they mad about information being freely given.

+1 The faster newbies can get ahead of the "learning curve" the better for everyone involved.

And those who sell products oftentimes give out relevant information for free. A good example is Carl Strohmeyer who sells medications and yet provides detailed dosage information on generics anyone could buy elsewhere: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html

 

[happyhourhero]

I feel like in this hobby there are tiers just like everything else and I think if you took a cross section of hobbyists you would find people running a mixture of high end to second hand gear.

When I started, I used the time it took to cycle to constantly read forums. Back then it was immersing in the tank of the month articles on RC and finding people who were doing the deal and sharing their successes and failures. Reading books and and just celebrating the diversity of the life you could actually keep in your house.

Now, there are tiny specks of colorful coral that you can peddle through social media for $500 and anyone and everyone is trying to one up everybody else with both their version of right and how much gear they have and why their $$$ goes farther than yours and how Fire the pieces are from their garage chop shop. It’s turned into a marketing and money making frenzy. Even this forum blasts you with notifications about this or that to drive you to a certain vendor or product. Some people think that stuff is great and some do not but the bottom line is the $$$ is driving the ship these days.

You can still follow people who are nice enough to share their journey and you can likely copy most of what they do and find success. I would caution against listening to anything at all on FB. Place is garbage.

 

[Snookin]

Rev, I don't think OP was trashing R2R. I think (and I as I feel) the internet /opinionette is diluting info with opinions as many others have mentioned.

Exactly, @stanleo hit it too. There is rarely quality follow up. Many times threads just die without the OP resolution and you really never know what they tried or did and the outcome. The stickies and articles of course provide the best info and follow up. But, in the past I’ve had to send too many PMs to people on more specific issues and asked questions like “what was the outcome of x?” or “did this action solve your issue?”. It just frustrates me to see newer members regurgitate bad info over and over like gospel and other threads with good recommendations die with no follow up resolution either good or bad. It’s an internet and a forum issue not a R2R issue.

 

[Humblefish]

I would caution against listening to anything at all on FB. Place is garbage.

I used to agree with this but no longer. The same people doling out info on forums are also on FB. The guy who runs the local FB group here (Florida panhandle) runs all over helping everyone with their tanks (for free). He organizes meets, coordinates giveaways at the meets, lines up speakers, etc. I have rarely met a more selfless person who is truly just interested in helping other hobbyists. There are others like him (on Facebook) all over the country.

 

[stanleo]

I used to agree with this but no longer. The same people doling out info on forums are also on FB. The guy who runs the local FB group here (Florida panhandle) runs all over helping everyone with their tanks (for free). He organizes meets, coordinates giveaways at the meets, lines up speakers, etc. I have rarely met a more selfless people who is truly just interested in helping other hobbyists. There are others like him all over the country.

I would love to find someone who could come over and physically look at my set up and correct the little things I know I am probably doing wrong and don't realize it.

 

[happyhourhero]

I used to agree with this but no longer. The same people doling out info on forums are also on FB. The guy who runs the local FB group here (Florida panhandle) runs all over helping everyone with their tanks (for free). He organizes meets, coordinates giveaways at the meets, lines up speakers, etc. I have rarely met a more selfless people who is truly just interested in helping other hobbyists. There are others like him (on Facebook) all over the country.

I find our club to be an exception to the rule. Without people knowing who you are, go post something on one of the big groups that should be accepted general beginner knowledge and see what the replies are. In my opinion, even worse are the people just looking for someone to co-sign their bad decision.

 

[stanleo]

In my opinion, even worse are the people just looking for someone to co-sign their bad decision.

I find that happens a lot when people ask if a blue tang will be ok in a 30 gallon tank. They are just waiting for that one person to say "sure, go for it". And then two days later ask "why did my tang die?"

But that goes with "you get out of it what you want."

 

[Humblefish]

I would love to find someone who could come over and physically look at my set up and correct the little things I know I am probably doing wrong and don't realize it.

That's exactly what he does and there are others on FB/local forums doing the same thing. National forums are fine, but newbies really need local connections to help get them going. Someone to come over and actually look at the problem you are having. Plus, it builds community & friendships.

 

[Snookin]

I find that happens a lot when people ask if a blue tang will be ok in a 30 gallon tank. They are just waiting for that one person to say "sure, go for it". And then two days later ask "why did my tang die?"

And someone always replies with a Yes! try that or add this it worked in my tank for 2 whole months. Smh. 4 months later both members are usually inactive and probably out of the hobby.

 

[stanleo]

And someone always replies with a Yes! try that or add this it worked in my tank for 2 whole months. Smh. 4 months later both members are usually inactive and probably out of the hobby.

But don't we all go through the mistake phase in this hobby? My first tank as an adult was a 20 gallon freshwater with fake plants and WAY too many fish. I gave up on it after two months cause the algae was unreal and I thought this was impossible. Several years later I saw what was possible and did the research and learned from my mistakes and I had a great time. That's one of the reasons I like this forum. No one calls those people idiots because most of us remember when we started, we were idiots too. It is frustrating when you see those posts from people who say "I picked up a tank AND a fish today, why isn't this working?" but that's why they are here. We have to have just as much patience with them as we want them to have with the hobby and setting up their first tank.

 

[brandon429]

Humblefish

I chatted with Carl that guy is a real LA fish master. searching on him is a 48 hour rabbit hole

wanna know how i found him

one particular day i just HAD to know the history, before and after, of that giant pacu fish from the movie fear and loathing in las vegas. it HAD to be known/google keyword clicks/giant pacu from fear and loathing/tiki lounge/he cared for that fish its whole life practically wow = rabbit hole leading me to his website and knowledge. best rabbit hole in a long time he's really cool

there are online pics of him caring for that giant pacu back in the 70s its an amazing fish.

From Carl, its current status unknown after the sale of building. the next day after ponderance of how one could secure a big pacu for a movie, the tanks to hold it, what they did after filming with it, I was talking online with the one human being who knew its life history. this was immediately bragged to everyone at work.

As for "Rufus the pacu", when the restaurant closed, he was there for some time being taken care of by an employee before a home was found. I do not know where he was moved or even if he survived the move (as he was a very large fish that would not be easy to safely move)

Carl

25 yrs later from the movie still: