Reef Hobby going down the drain

[Indytraveler83]

A few thoughts on all this from a newbie (reefing since April):

1) Much like everything online, places like this can be a wealth of info both good and bad. Never in the past could you talk directly to experts in the field with the touch of a (simulated) button. But, you have to filter that from a wealth of others who have a seemingly equal voice. Much of the modern world is based on filtering information, so it really mimics the way people exchange all information.

2) I just bought $25 acan heads for 20% off at my local store, and he gave me a free laser cut clownfish ornament just for visiting. Black Friday is alive and well, if you know where to look, same with good prices.

3) My main complaint in this hobby is that everyone seems to think you need high end scientific test equipment and an entire room dedicated to water processing, quarantine and filters in order to have be any setup at all. This hobby is expensive, but it’s even harder when newbies are told they need a college chemistry lab to diagnose why their $15 frag isn’t doing well. We really need to advocate for “budget” systems. A tank of damsels and some inexpensive corals could be gorgeous and cost almost the same as a freshwater setup.

 

[Humblefish]

I wish there were a more efficient, attractive way to do that.

Just to be clear, I'm only talking about the basics. The aspects of the hobby we all generally agree upon (e.g. QT your livestock). The finer points (e.g. prophylactic QT vs. passive observation) the hobbyist must ultimately decide for themselves through trial & error/what works best for them.

 

[Joe Rice]

Any ideas on how to deal with that? I am back to 'just keep slogging' but that seems so inefficient.

Just blue-skying here but I wonder if there might be a way to implement a scheme whereby current Expert Contributors can click a button (ala "Like") that indicates that they approve of the advice given in a particular post. Eventually if a member garners enough "That's good advice" points from the Expert Contributors, they could become Trusted Advisors or, perhaps, Expert Contributors themselves.

 

[Quietman]

So I just really started in this hobby last year. I did years of research and lurking and video watching while waiting to move into a permanent home. My experience is just the opposite. Granted I have no direct experience with the old days of reefing in a very small community so I offer no comparisons to that.

I found everything I've needed to be successful online either through forums, videos or online magazines. I've never discussed reefing with an LFS or a local club. True, I'm new and my success measures are limited and I try not to claim any unearned expertise, but my tank is looking good, corals are growing, fish are healthy and I'm very happy with the progress and looking forward to the future.

The bumps in the road I've gone through were made much more bearable and less impactful by the good folks on here and in the larger reefing community.

The vendors I've worked with directly both retail and manufacturing have been honestly a surprising joy. I've never felt they've done anything less than go above and beyond resolving my issues and earning my loyalty. I've never purchased a product or service that didn't show return my expected value. I may have used the product and gone a different route but only because of my needs, not because of any product dissatisfaction.

All that said, I am a very judicious consumer of internet, forum and vendor information. I also select my vendors very carefully. I always want solid and numerous reviews and I need the data to be consistent across more than one source. I strongly believe in the "if it's too good to be true, it usually is" philosophy and that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". I don't hold it against the community that a minority of members do not hold to the standards I found to be generally in place everywhere.

I do think the 'old guard' does need to monitor and hold the line on what it means to be in this community. One of the things I like best is the people that created this as a practical hobby are still around and engaged and still helping new people find their way.

As a newbie with only a year's experience. I've thoroughly enjoyed and been impressed with the hobby, the people in it, the quality of information (judiciously consumed again) and the vendors providing goods and services. I'd recommend reefing to anyone with the time and money and desire to do something unique, challenging and beautiful. I'd also recommend they do their research carefully.

 

[Humblefish]

If it were not for @Humblefish, I would not still be in the hobby. But I’m so grateful for his guidance & selfless efforts to educate us.

And I'm blessed to know you. It takes encouragement from people like you to keep me going; otherwise I just get dragged down when I encounter too much adversity.

 

[Scorpius]

Reef2reef is a good place compared to other forums. Noobs should never stray in NASIOC OT. Ever. lol

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I'll just say this. IMO R2R (and the reef community as a whole) is made up of really awesome people! These are people who are generous with their time, knowledge, and even their resources. We don't all get it right all of the time, and there's a 1001 ways to run a reef tank. Also, reef tanks are complex systems, a solution that works well for one person interacting as a part of their system may not work well for someone with a different system. Are there some bad apples in the reef industry? Sure, but that's with any part of society. I believe the reef hobby is a great community to be a part of today.

Happy holidays, everyone!

 

[Flippers4pups]

I believe that the Rev would agree for me to post this. I wrote this to the Reefsquad and felt it was appropriate to post here for what it's worth:

"I believe it's time for a letter to squad:

In this time of ups and downs In society, the cost of living going up and people in general living in stress, the hobby is at times is a reflection of all of this, especially around the holidays. We, the reefsquad freely have chosen to be apart of this community and through the love and passion we personally have for hobby, have chosen to help hobbyist around the world here. Volunteering selfishly, giving our time to help, as other hobbyist do as well that aren't apart of the squad. Not only are we a reflection of the forum, we are a reflection of the hobby, the good in humanity and society. I am personally honored to be apart of this group. Nowhere else have I felt this way. A hobby forum of all things!

This why I feel that it's time for this to written. Here, as anywhere around us, is some people that have taken the time to vent their frustrations, their views of the bad, the lack of direction of the forum and it's membership and vendor's. With what I wrote above, it's expected, sadly it is. When I see this I always take it with a open mind, never personal, but with a understanding that it's a person behind the words. I've said this many times that you never truly understand what someone is going through, what they have been through or why they need to vent. Constructive criticism is a good thing, even if it's pointed directly at us. Taken with a grain of salt.

When this happens and you take it all in, turn it into a positive and reflect back the good in us all. Never going to make everyone happy, never going to save the world or in this matter, change someone's point of view overnight.

Keep up the good work that you do here and if it gets to be to much, we are here to listen and understand!

Thankful for your participation in the squad.

Don"

 

[Jwoott]

As far as any forum is concerned you are always going to have a lot of opinions, that is what makes them great!
If I go ask 10 people for cookie recipes I am going to get 10 different recipes for all sorts of cookies. Some may be great, others not so much. If I refine that question and ask 10 people for chocolate chip cookie recipes I am still going to get 10 different recipes, and one person trolling saying sugar cookies are better. But it is up to me to sift through the info and choose what is best for me.
In an ideal world we would have the perfect answer for everything but we don’t. Everyone is just trying to do their best and help each other out here. It’s up to each of us to do additional research and figure out what is best for our tanks. Saying a forum is trash puts everyone down. We should be helping build everyone and helping them succeed in the hobby.

 

[Retro Reefer]

Some things have certainly went through the roof such as coral colonies and some fish but a lot of stuff has the exact same pricing as 30 years ago and many things are much cheaper.. I payed more than twice as much for my sump and skimmer back in the 80’s as I did for the ones on my current system and anyone ever buy a PH controller 30 years ago? Talk about sticker shock!

As a example here is a invoice from almost 30 years ago.. anyone remember COD the feather dusters and turbo snails are the exact same price my LFS charges today! and note shipping with box charge comes out to basically the exact price you pay today for overnight shipping.

 

[Auquanut]

I view a forum, and especially this forum as a community of like minded individuals sharing information, experiences, opinions and advice with each other in an effort to improve our success and enjoyment in the endeavor. In that, I think R2R excels.
What the OP and several others appear to want is fact based, flawless instruction from a bank of reefing experts. All other members should limit their involvement to asking questions.
I'm not sure that a reefing forum or any forum could work like that.
I have personally been corrected more than once on comments I've made. I appreciate and value the knowledge I've gained by interacting with our other members. I wouldn't have it any other way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As far as the reefing industry is concerned, I agree that the cost of livestock and equipment is driven by the consumer. As new technology comes onto the market, the success and cost of that technology is also determined by the desires of the consumer. I've never seen any vendor claim that without X product, you are doomed to failure. I've found most companies I've dealt with to be honest and helpful. As each vendor is in competition with other vendors, their own success depends on the satisfaction of the customer. Just free enterprise in action.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Many here will recall CompuServe's FishNet forum in the 90's, where it was a premium service and my monthly bill for it was $75. Even then, there was good and bad information being presented, but it was easy enough (albeit expensive) to discuss issues. This was in the day where the only books on reef-keeping were Peter Wilkens' two-volume set and a few pamphlet-like tomes.
Fast forward to today, where access to R2R is free. There is much more equipment available but the basics haven't changed. The 'secret' to successful reef-keeping is dedication, and an ability to learn from your mistakes (and I've probably made just about every one.) The ability to access a forum such as this and share experiences is priceless.

 

[Feet4Fish]

Yup, Carl is my "fish pharmacist".

He's done so much good for the hobby. I'm trying to get his name (and his work) out there more so he can be properly recognized.

When I stumbled across Carl's writings and work on his American Aquarium Products website, I got engulfed for hours. Loved reading his experience and knowledge. Would love to talk to the guy one on one!

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Once you learn that the internet is one big dumpster fire, things start to look up.

But yeah, opinions die hard in the hobby. Try suggesting halide lights on a lighting forum and see what happens....

 

[Dana Riddle]

I meant to state this in my previous post, but the tryptophan from left-over turkey had its effects... No hobbyists/professional aquarist has an answer to everything. I often look at threads here on R2R that are of interest, and many times come away with a different perspective on an issue. I'm a fossil, but not too old to learn. LOL.

 

[Bmckinney04]

I'm also new to the hobby and R2R has been awesome... There was a question about a mentor to the new hobbiest and I for one jumped on that quick...I now have a mentor within R2R that thus far has been excellent; on Thanksgiving I seen a hitchhiker and asked my mentor and within minutes I had an answer, I consider myself lucky to have stumbled into this forum and would like to say thank you to ALL contributors for ur help especially to Retro Reefer for all ur help individually...

 

[oldpaddy]

The hobby has been in trouble for a while now. Less pet stores, more Dudley do rights and the Indonesian supply problem has hastened the hobbies demise. There's always been novice "experts" who tell you how you must keep a tank, but I swear it's gotten worse. The hobby just isn't inclusive anymore.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The reefing hobby is in a bad position. Niche hobby that has gotten even more expensive. Black Friday sales were trash this year. Hobby keeps burning new people with bad info and marketing. Haven’t been on this site for a while and came back recently to trash. Forums are polluted with terrible takes and bad info only to be followed by bias info from homers of products who consider themselves “influencers”. Man, I feel bad for the new people that actually want to join this hobby and are misguided by the internet.

I think most companies can’t afford big discounts as they are buying items with a relatively small profit margin, the hobby is getting expensive for all not just the consumer. I also feel that the original Black Friday motto has been lost somehow in recent years. As for the bad advice I recon the person receiving the advice could be just as bad as the person giving the bad advice. Following any advice blindly is a bad way to act on anything they should also research the advice given before actually be implemented.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Youtube spoils everything with all the influencer reviews and howtos that are 90% heavily sponsored by the manufacturers of the products behind the scenes. So what you get is a biased opinion and positive thoughts only, even if the product has flaws / doesn’t do what it should.

 

[Bossman]

The reefing hobby is in a bad position. Niche hobby that has gotten even more expensive. Black Friday sales were trash this year. Hobby keeps burning new people with bad info and marketing. Haven’t been on this site for a while and came back recently to trash. Forums are polluted with terrible takes and bad info only to be followed by bias info from homers of products who consider themselves “influencers”. Man, I feel bad for the new people that actually want to join this hobby and are misguided by the internet.

That's a pretty bleak outlook! I'm new to the hobby, just 2 years in, and I don't see what you're describing reefing to be at all.

Reefing is just like any other hobby/activity. You have to do your own research. There's an enormous amount of information out there. The forums have opinions and you have to take them for what they are, opinions. I don't take every post to heart but try to take something away from every post I choose to read. LFS will give you their opinions as well. Some good and some bad. IF you take your time and learn, you'll get it right, I did. I didn't drink the punch.

The innovation in Reefing is growing and is amazing! I see changes just in the time I've been involved. All of the innovation is a result of the demand. There would be no new products or systems developed if there was not a demand. That research and development costs money right?! I don't expect the latest gadget that I want to be 50% any day soon including Black Friday.