Reef Hobby going down the drain

[LC8Sumi]

The innovation in Reefing is growing and is amazing! I see changes just in the time I've been involved. All of the innovation is a result of the demand. There would be no new products or systems developed if there was not a demand. That research and development costs money right?! I don't expect the latest gadget that I want to be 50% any day soon including Black Friday.

Or are the bussinesses pushing their newer and newer products you wouldn’t even want and need if it wasn’t sugar coated and popularized on youtube/forums, to make more money?

 

[WVNed]

Who needs that new stuff. My old power head works fine.

 

[Bossman]

Or are the bussinesses pushing their newer and newer products you wouldn’t even want and need if it wasn’t sugar coated and popularized on youtube/forums, to make more money?

LOL, Not a chance!

How much money do you think it takes to develop, test and market a new product? You think manufacturers are throwing products out there you wouldn't even want or need??

What would that do to the reputation of a company? No company wants to introduce a product that will bomb or damage their reputation. There is the evolution of any product. It's made, comes to market and is improved over time.

I want a roller mat. There have been many new comers and changes to systems recently. I'm waiting until they become a little more practical and affordable. It will happen.



Just, LOL! The demand drives the market.

 

[X-37B]

Who needs that new stuff. My old power head works fine.

Thats as manual as any system can get, lol!

 

[siggy]

No way can you compare the 80-90's style of reefing to today's or even the 2k era . I had tanks in all of those
and none can compare to today's information and equipment, it simply did not exist or was too complex for the
AVERAGE FAMILY to have an outstanding tank like we see HERE.
The tons of advice offered is great and is mostly just reminders of the basics that are overlooked or forgotten, but when it comes to expert level information the chaff is quickly separated and at times in no uncertain terms ;Blackeye to keep most of us
on the strait and narrow. All thanks to those that volunteer their time. I think this hobby is evolving greater and faster today than any other time than i have been active, and has enabled everyone the opportunity to keep a salty tank.

 

[reefiniteasy]

All I know is I got some pretty sweet deals @TopShelfAquatics By far my favorite local shop. 25% off AquaFX RODI filters and LRS buy 2 get 1 frozen food. Almost bought a new tank too! Deals were good. Not to mention I got some Hanna Checkers from BRS at an awesome price.

This forum is amazing and the people here are as well (well most ).

@revhtree I hereby propose a new badge. The “Negative Nancy” badge. After a certain number of negative sounding posts, this badge is added to a user until they redeem themselves by providing the community with an ample amount of positivity.

 

[X-37B]

No way can you compare the 80-90's style of reefing to today's or even the 2k era . I had tanks in all of those
and none can compare to today's information and equipment, it simply did not exist or was too complex for the
AVERAGE FAMILY to have an outstanding tank like we see HERE.
The tons of advice offered is great and is mostly just reminders of the basics that are overlooked or forgotten, but when it comes to expert level information the chaff is quickly separated and at times in no uncertain terms ;Blackeye to keep most of us
on the strait and narrow. All thanks to those that volunteer their time. I think this hobby is evolving greater and faster today than any other time than i have been active, and has enabled everyone the opportunity to keep a salty tank.

Well said my friend!

 

[TheHarold]

There’s something to be said about the hobby being corrupted by commercialism. Where there is more emphasis on how much money you can spend than on your actual reef/success with corals. Plenty of “builds” here are just people throwing thousands of dollars at a system, with honestly little to nothing to show for it.

They blame this of that, never realizing that the issue is money does not equal experience. But hey, if the stand is pretty.... LOL

 

[EMeyer]

I enjoy a wide ranging rant discussion as much as the next guy. But I think a lot of the complaints here are misapplied to the reefing hobby or the R2R community, when they are really broader, more general issues.

If you ask enough people for advice on which jeans to buy, you will find people seriously recommending $400 jeans. (You laugh, while they try to pretend its because they're 'higher quality' and 'you get what you pay for')

If you ask people for advice about which car to buy, you can find someone who tells you its a good idea to buy a brand new car instead of a used car in good shape, and if you need to replace your battery you should take it to the dealership. You're laughing, but I've actually met these people. They really exist.

The reef community isnt some unusual place because people recommend $800 lights and $400 skimmers for newcomers to the hobby. Its the same thing all across society.

Filtering information in the internet age has become essential. Here are two rules I live by that help a LOT
1. If its worth knowing, someone has taken the time to write it down in text.
2. If the person providing the info was paid to review the product, you can safely ignore their review

 

[ReefHomieJon]

Maybe it’s going down the drain in your eyes but that’s not true at all. I’m new to the hobby. Started my tank late late July. It’s thriving. Thanks to YouTube videos, BRStv, and REEF2REEF. Everyone knows you have to take what people say with a grain of salt. But the more you learn about reef chemistry and what it take to be successful doing this the more you can spot some bogus advice and also, the more you can appreciate the knowledge of the experienced and well seasoned reefers from back during those “better years of reefing” you speak of. You kind of sound like a bitter old man hating on the current generations way of doing things lol. Far better it is to embrace the growth of the hobby, help people who are really want their tanks to benefit from your veteran reef wisdom(for those who have it), and sit back and enjoy your own tank like you’ve always have. If you hate LED’s for example(not saying you do) because they just don’t compare in your eyes to metal halides or T-5’s then run the lights you believe in. Etc etc. Just because the hobby is progressing equipment wise and getting more exposure(which is in part the reason for stupid expensive frag prices cuz it’s a hot item now) doesn’t mean it’s going DOWN THE DRAIN. Just reef your own way and let your tank speak for itself as to how great the “old days of reefing” were man

 

[X-37B]

There’s something to be said about the hobby being corrupted by commercialism. Where there is more emphasis on how much money you can spend than on your actual reef/success with corals. Plenty of “builds” here are just people throwing thousands of dollars at a system, with honestly little to nothing to show for it. Not that I would want to call anyone out, of course!

This is true. Thats why I have kept my system simple.
Filter sock, skimmer, ato, ati t5, 4 powerheads for movement, and 2 part.
Calcium reactor ready when needed.
Less is more to me, but I know people want every bell and whistle they can get.
That does not make thier tank any more succesfull than mine. They have just spent 5 times more on thier system.
But thats what makes any hobby a hobby!

 

[Zos4me]

@revhtree

Hard to swallow when someone comes into your neighborhood and calls it a dump!

Be Proud of what you have created.its the best hands down. Keep up the good work

 

[Thaxxx]

Yes, I see this as probably the biggest weakness with forums like this. The weakness isn't with the forum, but how people use it. It seems like a lot of people go out and buy a tank, fish, corals, etc without doing any reading. Then they come on here and want instant answers, but they don't even know how to ask the questions. But the answers are all already here. This place is like the College of Reefing.

You know the saying "It's the journey, not the destination" With this hobby, it seems the opposite. Then when someone gets there, they get bored and start tweaking and inevitably screw things up. I know everyone is in the hobby for different reasons. I think that is the first question you ask yourself before you begin. As we all know, that reason may change. But that's the beauty of it. "The Journey"

 

[X-37B]

Hard to swallow when someone comes into your neighborhood and calls it a dump!

I’ll try my best to look at this thread, listen and learn in an effort to make R2R an even better community.

Hang in ther Rev. One persons dump is anothers playground. Its all relative in the long run.
Keep up the positive attitude you project. Positive always wins over negative. Peace brother!

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

The hobby is what you make it.

For a beautiful and fascinating reef that you can learn from, enjoy daily, and destress with, you don't need expensive equipment and controllers. You don't need designer names, you don't need to chase the holy grail, you don't need to seek or win the approval of others.

You can make it your own agonizing prison or your retreat. The choice is yours alone. To each their own!

After 50 years in the hobby I'm still enthralled by it. God's creations never cease to captivate and inspire me. Sit back, relax, and open your mind and heart to the wonders of a world so few ever get to see. We are blessed!

 

[NanoDJS]

I think people have the most access to equipment and livestock than ever now with indo ban lifted also , forums like this always have fanboys , and shills its a public forum , they would be fools not to use it. I myself was away from the forum for a really long time and came back to "Reefnet 2.0" reboot also and was shocked at some of the methodology and money that people are told they need to be successful , truth is any method that worked in the past will work now also. I find many more beneficial articles, and actual caring posts by other reef2reefers , at least the people doing it a while. They are never shy about standing their ground on certain things lol . As others mentioned its everybody's responsibility to perform due diligence when attempting to shelter live animals, otherwise your just wrong and irresponsible. Reef2Reef enables those who can perform proper intel gathering a lifetime of info at this point to pour through and many fun times included. All and all I think most people gravitate to the guys who have really established systems and do the KISS system, but we all love to watch the boys with the hotrods now, and they always do things al lil bit differant. I'm sorry your having a bad re-entry to online reefing , but it is certainly not the fault of Rev & co , or the countless major contributors here who really just want to spread the word about reefing and grow the industry. Be the change you want to see. My 2 c

 

[Halo_003]

A couple of counter points, just my opinion....

I wouldn’t be in the hobby without forums like R2R and Nanoreef. I’ve seen shops take advantage of naive buyers and other scummy things just to make a sale. Without the wealth of information available on this site I think I’d have just quit after being/seeing abuse by poor LFS.

Now I’ve also been fortunate to frequent some incredibly high quality stores (Like WWC’s new store) that put forward ethical practices and just want you to have the best tank possible. I can relate to the frustration with prices of livestock; I’m current stocking a BTA dominant tank and I’m seeing $100+ green and $300+ reds when a few years ago reds were $60 and greens were $20. Torch purchasers probably feel about the same.

Regarding high equipment prices, personally I’m okay with paying premiums to get the highest quality. I travel a decent amount for work and I couldn’t keep a tank without the automation readily available like controllers and auto top offs.

 

[robdareefer]

I have not been in the hobby long. Already on my second tank, it's already going better then the first. I don't blame anyone for my first failer, well I wouldn't call it a failer it was a big learning experience! It's up to each person to take what they here and make there own calls. I think things can be done at reasonable prices. I don't have money by no means but my tank is running and going great!

 

[LC8Sumi]

LOL, Not a chance!

How much money do you think it takes to develop, test and market a new product? You think manufacturers are throwing products out there you wouldn't even want or need??

What would that do to the reputation of a company? No company wants to introduce a product that will bomb or damage their reputation. There is the evolution of any product. It's made, comes to market and is improved over time.

I want a roller mat. There have been many new comers and changes to systems recently. I'm waiting until they become a little more practical and affordable. It will happen.



Just, LOL! The demand drives the market.

Well I know of a company who has put the same pumps in their skimmer for the past 15 years, yet they try to sugarcoat it as the whole skimmer is a brand new thing. It's intersting that almost everyone hated these pumps 10 years ago, and now everyone is rating them 5* on youtube.

 

[WVNed]

There’s something to be said about the hobby being corrupted by commercialism. Where there is more emphasis on how much money you can spend than on your actual reef/success with corals. Plenty of “builds” here are just people throwing thousands of dollars at a system, with honestly little to nothing to show for it.

They blame this of that, never realizing that the issue is money does not equal experience. But hey, if the stand is pretty.... LOL

Commercialism not a problem with this hobby but our society. People want to be able to buy success while skipping the work, knowledge, practice and time it takes to achieve it.

I have seen people spends thousands on a RC vehicle and run it into something in 10 seconds because they didn't learn to use it first. I have seen people spend thousands on a firearm and say it is bad because they never learned to shoot. I have seen them spend thousands on a pure breed dog and get rid of it because it doesn't act the way they want. It is always the thing at fault and not them.

Things that are worthwhile to do are not easy and take dedication, time and effort. Money cant make that for you. You have to do it yourself.

There is a common hitchhiker sticky post in a Hitchiker forum here. How many bother to look at it before posting another blurry picture of an aiptasia, qtip sponge ot ball anemone?